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(L to R) David Jonsson and Tom Blyth in ‘Wasteman’. Photo: Lionsgate.
Moviefone recently had the pleasure of speaking with David Jonsson and Tom Blyth about their work on ‘Wasteman’, Jonsson’s first reaction to the screenplay, Blyth’s approach to his character, shooting the riot sequence and filming in a real former prison.
You can read the full interview below or click on the video player above to watch our interviews.
Moviefone: To begin with, David, can you talk about your first reaction to the screenplay and why you wanted to help tell this story and play this character?
David Jonsson: Well, I guess my first reaction to reading this screenplay was the feeling that this is real. I love films and making films is such a special process. But there’s very rare times when you’re working on something that has a root source material. So, I feel like that was in the script. The process of taking it from there to where it is now was very long. Making movies is heroic because nine times out of ten films fall apart, which is what happened with this film. Before either of us came aboard it, it fell apart and then years after it started to gain some momentum again. So, I’m grateful that we got to make this film not just because it feels like a special project, but because of what we were able to give to it, which I think was inherently quite deep.
Tom Blyth in ‘Wasteman’. Photo: Lionsgate.
MF: Tom, can you talk about the research you did for this role and how it shaped your approach and informed your performance?
Tom Blyth: I started as I always do by reading and there’s a lot that goes into it, but I won’t bore the pants of you. I did some reading and listened to podcasts, and you listen, and you absorb as much as you can about the world that you’re living in. But then the main thing, honestly, was we had this charity on board called Switchback, who are a UK prison charity where they help recent prison parolees get back on their feet and get into work and accommodations and just have a place to go. They came on board as consultants, but very quickly became such an integral part of the film process that about 70% of the supporting cast are recent prison parolees who were involved in the charity. So, it gave the film this gritty realism, but at the same time it meant that we had this incredible living resource all around us. If at any minute we felt the “BS barometer” creeping up, you could turn to someone and go, “Is this feeling real to you? Would I be able to do this?” He’d turn around and say, “You know, maybe this way instead of that way. Or maybe you wouldn’t have that in your cell, so I’d get rid of that if I were you.” It just meant it was breathing the entire time and the whole thing felt rich and real.
Tom Blyth in ‘Wasteman’. Photo: Lionsgate.
MF: Tom, can you talk about shooting the riot sequence? Did you rehearse that scene or just go for it?
TB: Most of the fight scenes were well planned and rehearsed, but that one was less so. That was one where they really did bring in six people with riot shields and riot gear and just threw them against us. Lorenzo (Levrini) our DP was amongst it with the camera, trying not to get hit. But there were gas canisters going off, like fake tear gas, and you couldn’t see a thing. You got all the guys playing in the background up above shouting and throwing water on us. It was chaos. It was absolute chaos and I ended up with a big gash in my hand and was bleeding all over the riot shields and you couldn’t quite tell what my blood was and what was the makeup blood. But the adrenaline was just so high, you just keep going and by the end, I was burned out. But it adds to the sense that you’re living it and it’s real.
David Jonsson in ‘Wasteman’. Photo: Lionsgate.
MF: Finally, David, I understand that you shot the movie in a real former prison. What were the vibes like in there and do you think it added to the tone and mood of the movie?
DJ: Oh, it was spooky. There were spooky vibes all around. You know, your environment informs a lot of what you do, which is why films try to go to the right place. But this film, filming in a natural prison just gave us everything that we needed. In my opinion, I think it adds to the pressure cooker of this film because I do think it is a pressure cooker. I think it’s based in that, as Tom said, gritty reality. So, shooting in an actual prison, I think it’s like, you couldn’t write it. It’s exactly what’s meant to be.
‘Wasteman’ opens in theaters on April 17th.
What is the plot of ‘Wasteman’?
Taylor’s (David Jonsson) hopes for a fresh start post-parole are jeopardized by cellmate Dee’s (Tom Blyth) arrival. As Dee takes Taylor under his wing, a vicious attack tests their bond, forcing Taylor to choose between protecting Dee and his own chances at freedom.
Moviefone recently had the pleasure of speaking with Tom Blyth and Daniel Webber about their work on season three of ‘Billy the Kid’, what fans can expect from the new season, Jesse’s relationship with Billy, Billy’s final showdown with Pat Garrett, and what it was like for them shooting the final season of the show.
(L to R) Tom Blyth and Daniel Webber star in ‘Billy the Kid’ season 3. Photo: MGM+.
You can read the full interview below or click on the video player above to watch our interviews.
Tom Blyth stars in ‘Billy the Kid’ season 3. Photo: MGM+.
Moviefone: To begin with, Tom, can you talk about where we left Billy at the end of season 2 and where we find him at the beginning of season 3?
Tom Blyth: Season two ends in the snow. It’s winter and Billy’s been sprung out of jail by his comrades, by his gang in a pretty dramatic escape with snow and fire and bullets. Then, season three, he’s very much on the run. He’s really an outlaw now. There’s no question about it. He’s living in the woods with his gang and essentially, I describe him this season as a Che Guevara kind of character. He’s almost a guerrilla warfare hero. He’s taking the fight to them, but he’s got to do it in such a way that he’s the resistance movement against this corrupt government in New Mexico, essentially, which is cool.
MF: Daniel, can you talk about where we find Jesse at the beginning of the new season?
Daniel Webber: So, Jesse’s dealing with the consequences and the aftermath of the war. I think on a personal level, he’s gotten essentially everything he wanted. He got power. He got his name recognition. He got money and status after the war, but he’s dealing with the consequences and essentially the blood on his hands. I think that there’s a certain guilt that he’s not even conscious of at this point, but there’s an instinct that he’s on the wrong path and there’s a transformation that is essentially starting very early on in the season. This season, so much of him is searching and we really get to see the underbelly of Jesse. We get to see the man. We’ve put a bit more flesh on him. I said before that we’re pulling the mask away. We’re seeing the cracks in the mask this season. Not just the bravado. Not just the swagger. Not just the dangerous, infamous Jesse Evans. We see who the man is next to the myth and carrying the weight of Billy’s myth in a sense this season. There’s a recklessness, I would say, to Billy the Kid. A wildness to Billy the Kid this season, which I don’t think we saw as much. I think he’s more the Billy the Kid that you might’ve heard from stories than what we’ve seen in the past and yeah, I get to be the guy who says, “No. Don’t do that.”
Tom Blyth stars in ‘Billy the Kid’ season 3. Photo: MGM+.
MF: Daniel, can you talk about Jesse and Billy’s friendship, where it went wrong, and will we see them have closure with that relationship before the end of the series?
DW: You’ll have to just wait and see. Historically, what I’ve loved about telling this story is it is in three parts, this relationship where they are friends, and he is introduced into the outlaw life in season one and being an outlaw and joining the Seven Rivers Gang. That’s one part of history. The second part is the rivalry they had during the Lincoln County War when they got split on opposite sides. Then the final part that I’d always looked to from the start was that Jesse Evans wrote to Billy the Kid when he was put in prison after he was supposed to have this bitter feud with this man. He’s a vowed enemy, so to speak. The one person he writes to was Billy the Kid to come break him out of prison. That really told me a lot about what the true feelings of the relationship really are and the depth of that brotherhood. So, I always saw this, especially this season, as a reluctant relationship, reluctant brotherhood, but they’re mirrors for each other. He’s essentially the shadow half of Billy. He’s the wild, reckless, dangerous part and he’s what Billy could become. I think this season, their roles are almost reversing, where Billy is becoming a little bit more reckless, a little bit wilder. This season, we see Jesse, like I said, dealing with the consequences of the violence that he’s already acted out and, in some ways, trying to pull him back, trying to be the counterpoint, trying to survive when he is going into this Che Guevara revolutionary mode, trying to be the voice of reason. He’s probably the one person in the gang who can get through to Billy.
MF: Tom, obviously we know from history how Billy’s story ends at the hands of Pat Garret. Can fans of the series expect a historically accurate ending or did you have the freedom to include some surprises?
TB: I think we are playing real people, but so much about them is lost in myth and so much of the gaps are filled in throughout history by people who either weren’t there or were there but had an agenda. Pat Garrett wrote the book that most people take the history from, so it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to think that maybe that telling of history is probably a little bit biased or skewed towards Pat’s perspective or agenda. So, we use that logic to let us not off the hook but let us use our imagination a bit more and think, well, if other people have taken the facts and tried to fill in the gaps, we should do the same thing. So, Michael Hirst, the creator of the show, is good at essentially going, “Here are the things we know happened. Let’s fill in the gaps with our imagination throughout and try and tell the full picture from what we know.” In that, we also get to see a version of Billy that we haven’t before. We get to see some things that may or may not have happened, we just don’t know. So, without giving too much away, to answer your question, I would say there’s a lot of fact in there, a lot of history and there’s a lot of exciting stuff we haven’t seen before.
Alex Roe stars in ‘Billy the Kid’ season 3. Photo: MGM+.
MF: Tom, was it bittersweet shooting season 3 knowing that it would be the final season and the last time you would play this character?
TB: Yeah. It’s super bittersweet. I’ve loved this show. I love the people I work with. We’re like a family. We’ve shot it over the past four years, I think. Four years and it has felt like going back home every time. Every time we’re lucky enough to get another season, and I honestly think three seasons is perfect. It was always what Michael Hirst was hoping to get, was three seasons. He had a real clear image in his mind of the trajectory of Billy, Jesse, Dulcinea and Pat’s stories and I think we get to wrap it up in a concise, beautiful way and it’s exciting. It’s exciting to see it through. It felt like, I would imagine ‘Game of Thrones’ feels making, where every time you get a script, you go, “What? No. What?” I won’t say why or who, but characters that we start to fall in love with having moments that are real surprises. Michael really took it there this season. Just as you fall in love with someone, they’re ripped away in a dramatic way, but it makes for entertaining television.
MF: Finally, Daniel, what was your experience like shooting the final season knowing that this was the end?
DW: I don’t know if it was because we knew it was finishing, but I think there’s so many characters this season who were so integral last season that get killed and so we were saying goodbye the whole time. There are some real stakes to this season. Every episode has somebody who we love on a personal level, but also story-wise that is gone. So, it felt like, personally, I was grasping to hold onto this thing. Lots of twists and turns.
Tom Blyth stars in ‘Billy the Kid’ season 3. Photo: MGM+.
What is the plot of ‘Billy the Kid’ season 3?
Following the end of the Lincoln County War, as both Billy the Kid (Tom Blyth) and Sheriff Pat Garrett (Alex Roe) have important issues to resolve – there is a reckoning to come. Billy is still at large, and Garrett is out to capture him, dead or alive. And with a bounty on his head, Billy can quit altogether and pursue a future with Dulcinea (Nuria Vega), the love of his life. But he has unfinished business with Garrett, who has betrayed him, and decides to stay. Meanwhile Jesse Evans (Daniel Webber), Billy’s longtime friend, rival, and enemy, also remains in Lincoln, searching for a newfound purpose and perhaps atonement for his sins. As the saga ends, Billy will fight like hell to try to finally find the justice that has long eluded him, even if it means he’ll die trying.
(L to R): Tom Blyth and Russell Tovey in ‘Plainclothes’, a Magnolia Pictures release. Photo: Magnolia Pictures.
In theaters via Magnet Releasing on September 19th is ‘Plainclothes’, a dramatic thriller that explores one man’s conflicting ties to duty and desire that threaten to tear him apart.
(L to R): Tom Blyth and Russell Tovey in ‘Plainclothes’, a Magnolia Pictures release. Photo: Magnolia Pictures.
Movies with an LGBTQ+ vantage point, particularly those dealing with characters who struggle with their sexuality, are tough to get right. There is a tendency towards histrionics or hyper-focusing on certain details.
With ‘Plainclothes’, writer-director Carmen Emmi largely delivers.
Script and Direction
(L to R): Tom Blyth and Russell Tovey in ‘Plainclothes’, a Magnolia Pictures release. Photo: Magnolia Pictures.
Emmi, making the leap from short films and TV work to features with this assured, carefully crafted debut, has created several excellent, heartfelt and authentic central roles that provide solid source material via a committed cast.
If he sometimes lets his stylistic side swamp the storytelling with flashbacks in various footage formats to indicate time periods, it doesn’t ultimately detract from the full impact of the movie.
Cast and Performances
(L to R): Tom Blyth and Russell Tovey in ‘Plainclothes’, a Magnolia Pictures release. Photo: Magnolia Pictures.
The highlights here are Brits Tom Blyth and Russell Tovey, who not only deliver nuance and honest emotion, but do so while both offering convincing American accents. Blyth in particular draws you into his character’s world, whether he’s working sting operations on gay men in mall toilets or dealing with the complex, twisty dynamics of his family.
And the supporting cast, from the other cops in the department to that aforementioned family, certainly do good work bringing smaller, but vital, roles to life.
Final Thoughts
Russell Tovey in ‘Plainclothes’, a Magnolia Pictures release. Photo: Magnolia Pictures.
Side-stepping many of the cliché traps possible in a story such as this, ‘Plainclothes’ delivers with low-fi filming and superb central performances.
Emmi establishes himself as a director to watch in the coming years.
‘Plainclothes’ receives 75 out of 100.
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What’s the story of ‘Plainclothes?
At his mother’s New Year’s Eve party Lucas (Tom Blyth), a young police officer, loses a letter no one was ever meant to read. Amid the backdrop of the suffocating family party, the search for the letter unlocks memories of a past he’s tried to forget: months earlier, while working undercover in a mall bathroom, Lucas arrested men by seducing them.
But when he encounters Andrew (Russell Tovey), everything changes. What begins as another setup becomes something far more electric and intimate. As their secret connection deepens and police pressure to deliver arrests intensifies, Lucas finds himself torn between duty and desire.
(L to R): Tom Blyth and Russell Tovey in ‘Plainclothes’, a Magnolia Pictures release. Photo: Magnolia Pictures.
Moviefone recently had the pleasure of speaking with Tom Blyth, Russell Tovey and filmmaker Carmen Emmi about their work on ‘Plainclothes’, developing the screenplay, the true story that inspired it, Blyth and Tovey’s approach to their characters, and the forbidden relationship they have together.
You can read the full interview below or click on the video player above to watch our interviews.
(L to R): Tom Blyth and Russell Tovey in ‘Plainclothes’, a Magnolia Pictures release. Photo: Magnolia Pictures.
Moviefone: To begin with, Carmen, can you talk about developing the screenplay and what were some of the themes that you wanted to explore as a director with this movie?
Carmen Emmi: I wanted to explore what it feels like to police your feelings. That was always the goal with this film, and specifically, I wanted to take a closer look at my anxiety and think about how my anxiety created a barrier to love, I suppose, in my life, but also a barrier to me being my true self. That’s what I set out to explore doing this film.
MF: Can you talk about the true story the film is based on?
CE: Well, I saw it through the lens of Lucas’s coming out experience. I mean, specifically plot wise, this was inspired by real events, by a sting operation in Long Beach, California, that I read about. It happened in 2014, where officers would go undercover and lure and arrest men who are cruising in a public restroom. I think that this policing of homosexuality or policing in this way has even gone on until 2019, I’ve heard recently. So, it’s oftentimes when people hear the plot of our story, they think, “Oh, well, that, wouldn’t happen today.” But it is inspired by events that happened and happened recently. It’s unfortunately a part of our history. But when you get in that state of mind, you know, “Everyone will just reject me,” you start telling yourself these things when you suppress your feelings. I knew that it was beyond queerness. I think anyone with a secret can probably feel that in their family dynamics.
Tom Blyth in ‘Plainclothes’, a Magnolia Pictures release. Photo: Magnolia Pictures.
MF: Tom, can you talk about Lucas’ struggle to do his job while holding on to this secret and the guilt and paranoia that he experiences?
Tom Blyth: Yeah, the whole film is about him trying to spin these plates, multiple plates at the same time of his own personality and his own life. Even Lucas not quite knowing yet, which are the real plates, and which are part of the façade he’s put on as a survival mechanism. Even once he meets Andrew, he adds a new plate to spin because he chooses at a different name. The first instinct he has is to say his dad’s name to cover up and to not be himself because he’s scared to tell Andrew his real name. So, he’s constantly having to lie and part of that is that he’s in this job at the police force as an undercover cop. So, he can’t stop lying and putting himself in these holes, but it’s all to do with his survival because he’s so scared of not being accepted for who he really is. So much of Carmen’s exploration of his own anxiety is in that story. So, it was it was a difficult place to live in for a month and a bit. To kind of go there every day but being surrounded by Carmen, Russell, Maria (Dizzia) and Amy (Forsyth), our amazing cast, and everyone. It was such a loving set to be on, which I think it had to be to tell a difficult story. But I think ultimately getting to see to see Lucas from A to Z and getting to have that breath of release at the end of the film that is a breath of hope and it’s complex and life is not going to be simple by any stretch just because he’s been able to be honest to himself. But certainly, as a release, he’s lived with this tension for so long and now he just gets to, even if it’s complex, be.
MF: Russell, can you talk about your approach to playing this character, his relationship with Lucas, and creating that relationship on screen with Tom?
Russell Tovey: Well, it was amazing working with Tom. We had very wonderful days on set. It was a joy to share these moments with him and I’m so proud of what we’ve achieved. People believed this relationship and believed this connection and that’s something that you have no control over when you step on set. You hope and pray that whoever you’re love scene partner is, you can act that out. We were able to do that. So that was a given and we didn’t have to think about that. So that was wonderful, and special. This character for me is someone that is a study in shame. How do we live but carrying a deep embedded ingrained shame? And what that does to people. So, it was kind of great to play because I think as actors, we want to be challenged. This is a guy that is multilayered and is hiding in plain sight from himself. How he is with Lucas is unlike how he is with anyone else in his life. It was like this relationship gave him a space to be free and could be the most honest he ever could be ever in his life. That’s why it’s so tragic, I think, that they aren’t together. But for me, I just I love the challenge of this character. I just think he’s. sad, but full of love.
Russell Tovey in ‘Plainclothes’, a Magnolia Pictures release. Photo: Magnolia Pictures.
MF: Russell, can you talk about the ramifications of this relationship for Andrew and what he has at stake?
RT: Well, the stakes for him personally, are the highest ever. He’s married, he does admit it. He says he’s got a wife and he’s got kids and for him, his children are everything. He does not want to lose his children. If this all comes out, he might lose his children and he might never get to see them grow up. That for him overrides any persuasion he has within him to live out his sexuality. He has rules and he sticks to them. Even when he falls completely in love, the advice he offers Lucas is it’s going to hurt. This is going to really hurt, but you do get over it, and you might get this feeling again and it’ll hurt again, but you’ll get over it. This poor guy has been through pain after pain after pain and he’s never allowed himself to feel the full gamut of what that joy could bring him. This is a guy that has never experienced pure joy and probably never will. But through Lucas, he can give him the invitation to take that choice. I think that’s a real act of generosity that he has, and he wants to make sure that Lucas has a wholesome, as much as it can be, even though they’re having sex in the back of a minivan, first experience that doesn’t leave him scarred or in recovery from this. All he’s got to recover from is a swollen heart from emotions, not like psychological damage, I hope.
MF: Tom, can you talk about Lucas’ grief over his father’s passing and does that add to the shame that he is feeling?
TB: I mean, as Russell said, shame is such a big, through line for a bunch of the characters in the film, and not even just the characters who are dealing with having to repress sexuality. I think even the mother, the uncle, the shame across the board. I think Carmen’s written a great study on human shame and how we put it on ourselves and put it on other people when we need not do that. The damage it causes, you see the rifts in the family around Lucas that is all about the shame of how they judge each other. Sometimes they will hold each other to certain expectations. I can certainly relate to that and seeing your own family and how they judge each other or hold each other to certain expectations. But what I love about how Carmen wrote the family is that despite Lucas’s fear of being accepted by his mother and his family, if he were to come out, there’s also a lot of love there. These are not abusive parents. They’re not parents who have made Lucas think that that he won’t be accepted. A lot of the fear and the shame is Lucas assuming that he won’t be accepted because of societal expectations. I hope Carmen doesn’t mind me speaking to this, but we talked a lot about his experience with fear and coming out with family members. I’ve met Carmen’s family, and they are some of the most loving, generous, warm hearted, accepting people I’ve ever met.
(L to R): Tom Blyth and Russell Tovey in ‘Plainclothes’, a Magnolia Pictures release. Photo: Magnolia Pictures.
Finally, Russell, what does this story mean to you and what do you hope audiences take away from watching the movie?
RT: It’s a study of perfectionism. We all struggle, and these characters are all struggling with being the perfect societal example of what they’ve been prescribed and none of them can be. Nobody in life can be the version that society says, “This is what you have to uphold to”. So, everyone’s struggling in this film. Whether it is sexuality, whether it’s just being present and being in the room with the people, they’re all struggling. So, it’s a study on perfectionism. It’s a study on shame and hopefully so many people are connecting with this film on so many levels because it’s universal. That’s what we all go through. That’s what we all feel. No matter who we’re attracted to or not, we’re all struggling and we’re all carrying around shame. We all want to be this perfect version of ourselves, which we never can do.
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What is the plot of ‘Plainclothes’?
Set in 1990s New York, a working-class undercover officer (Tom Blyth) is tasked with entrapping and apprehending gay men, only to find himself drawn to one (Russell Tovey) of his targets.
Tom Blyth in ‘Billy the Kid’ season 2 part 2. Photo: Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc.
Moviefone recently had the pleasure of speaking with Tom Blyth about his work on ‘Billy the Kid’ season 2 part 2, Billy’s role in the Lincoln County War, his friendship with Pat Garrett, his rivalry with Jesse Evans, playing Billy over two seasons, and if it is fun making a Western.
You can read the full interview below or click on the video player above to watch the interview.
(Center) Tom Blyth in ‘Billy the Kid’ season 2 part 2. Photo: Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc.
Moviefone: To begin with, the Lincoln County War has already begun. Can you talk about Billy’s role in the war and how that will continue in the second half of season 2?
Tom Blyth: I mean, the Lincoln County War is what Billy is known for really. That’s where he made his name. He was this 20-year-old kid who basically took the county by storm because he was the only person willing to stand up for the injustice that he saw. That is true, he was like a Robin Hood figure in that sense. He really did want to stick it to the man and the man were these politicians in New Mexico who were just basically profiteering off the little people. We pick up at part two, coming out on June 2nd. Part two begins where we left off with Tunstall (Linus Roache) being killed, who was his mentor and father figure. Billy’s grieving. He’s also lost his beloved Dulcinea (Nuria Vega), which ended in a fiery fight where he didn’t want to give up the life and she needed him to give up the life. All he’s got left is the regulators and the guys around him who also want to try and fight to end the corruption in their neighborhood. We see him basically stepping up to become a leader after people for a long time were trying to make him a leader. He’s finally ready to step into those shoes and become a General, basically.
MF: Can you talk about Billy’s friendship with Pat Garrett and how that will change now that Pat is Sheriff?
TB: I love what (executive producer) Michael Hirst has done with it because I don’t think any of us before we read the scripts expected that Pat was going to come back so soon because the Lincoln County War was just started. The fact that at the end of part one, we saw Pat come back into Lincoln and announced himself as the new sheriff, it begs the question, whose side is he going to be on? He’s got old friends on both sides. He’s got Jesse’s gang on the side of the house, Billy and his friends on the other side. Pat himself is in a tricky situation where he’s going to want to be an honorable law enforcement member, or at least he thinks he is. He’s got two old friends on either side trying to get him to take their side. It’s a very tricky human situation to be in, except the stakes are life and death.
Alex Roe as Pat Garrett in ‘Billy the Kid’ season 2 part 2. Photo: Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc.
MF: Obviously, we know how Billy and Pat’s story ended in real life, but has it been fun for you to tease out that relationship in this series?
TB: Yeah, I mean there’s so much that we don’t know as well. Some people think that Pat maybe colluded with Billy and let him get away. The history books tell us otherwise that Pat killed him eventually. The beauty of the dramatization is that we get to tell our own story. There are these two different truths that everyone thinks they know, and we get to work out what happened in between that. We don’t know where Michael Hirst wants to take it yet, and only he knows that whether he’s going to go with one of the two choices or go somewhere else in entirely. What we do know is that there is a whole massive relationship between Billy and Pat that is rich and troubled and that we don’t really know much about. The one book that is written about this time and about Billy and Pat was from Pat’s perspective. It’s interesting for Michael to write something that is not from Pat’s perspective, and we get to see or imagine what might have happened in the lead up to that.
MF: Can you talk about the rivalry between Billy and Jesse Evens, how that escalates in the second part of season 2 and what it’s been like working with Daniel Webber?
TB: I love Daniel. He’s become a very close friend. It’s funny, you can’t help but adopt some of your character’s traits and characteristics and point of view. Daniel and I laugh about it after we wrap. When we’re doing a scene together, we often get quite heated and it’s always good. We do go head-to-head on set and then afterwards we’re like, “What was that?” We’re like, “The characters are coming out in us.” Daniel and I have this kind of healthy competition that comes out naturally when we’re trying to work through a scene and it just fuels the scene, I think. Usually, it means that we do capture that kind of brotherly competition that they have and it’s so much fun. Me and Dan have a lot of love for each other.
Tom Blyth in ‘Billy the Kid’ season 2 part 2. Photo: Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc.
MF: What have you learned about the life of Billy the Kid from playing this character over two seasons and has it been difficult bringing humanity and sympathy to the character?
TB: He’s a character that everyone thinks they know because he’s a historic legend. Again, the history books are written from people’s perspectives. Like Pat Garrett wrote the main book on Billy. Pat Garrett is also the man who’s supposedly killed him, so I don’t know if we can take his word for it. Because of that, I’ve tried to formulate my own opinions, but really what I must do is not judge him. If I judge him, I can’t really portray him as a full human because then I’m going to be portraying him with a lens of judgment or a lens of was, he good? Was he bad? I’m way more interested in just keeping him in the present and in the decision making and the choices he makes, then the audience can decide for themselves. I don’t think anyone thinks they’re bad. Even people who commit atrocities probably don’t think they’re the bad one. They probably think they’re right somehow. Billy is somewhere on that spectrum and it’s interesting to delve into that.
MF: Finally, director John Ford once said, “If they knew how fun it is to make Westerns, they wouldn’t let us do it.” Do you agree with that? Is it fun making a Western?
TB: Wholeheartedly, I think that’s why they keep coming back because it is so much fun to make, unbelievable amounts of fun. It’s just putting on a hat and playing make believe, which is the purest form of TV and filmmaking. I think that translates to the screen. I think that’s why people like to watch them is because you can just sense that there’s like a swashbuckling, they’re like the pirate theme on land. There’s something adventurous about it, which speaks to our inner child. Yeah, it’s so much fun. By the end of season two, I got proficient. I feel comfortable in a saddle. When I’m not doing it, I miss it.
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What is the plot of ‘Billy the Kid’ Season 2 Part 2?
In Season 2 of ‘Billy the Kid’, Billy (Tom Blyth) gets caught in the middle of the Lincoln County War, a murderous conflict driven by money, greed and corruption. After enjoying a monopoly, Murphy’s Store is no longer the only player in town when Englishman John Tunstall (Linus Roache) moves to Lincoln and sets off a commercial rivalry. Law-and-order is no match for cowboy gangs and a secret society. Wild chases and shootouts abound. There are innumerable ambushes and killings. No-one is safe. After a pivotal assassination, things get very ugly, leaving Billy the Kid with an uncertain fate. Will he make it out of the Lincoln County War alive?
Who is in the cast of ‘Billy the Kid’ Season 2 Part 2?
The movie is directed by Francis Lawrence, who also helmed ‘The Hunger Games’ films ‘Catching Fire’ and ‘Mockingjay’, parts one and two. ‘The Balland of Songbirds and Snakes’ premieres in theaters on November 17, 2023.
Here are 10 things we learned from the ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes’ virtual press conference:
1. The cast were huge fans of ‘The Hunger Games’ novels and movies prior to being cast
(L to R) Rachel Zegler as Lucy Gray Baird and Tom Blyth as Coriolanus Snow in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Murray Close.
The cast elaborates on their love for the novels and movies and even dressed up as characters inspired by the franchise.
Rachel Zegler: I did read all of the books, and I saw all the movies as they came out, and it was a really lovely kind of bonding experience for my mom, my older sister and I, because we all read them together and watched them together and it was so wonderful.
Co-star Hunter Schafer talked about loving the costume designs described in the novels so much she created her own.
Hunter Schafer: I read the books in middle school and was deeply obsessed, and then saw the first movie and got obsessed with the costumes, and I made my own literal Capitol person costume for Halloween one year. I was drawing my own graphic novels of the book. It was a real deep obsession for a while, so it feels really full circle to be here now doing this.
2. Tom Blyth on stepping into Donald Sutherland’s shoes in portraying a young Coriolanus Snow
Tom Blyth as Coriolanus Snow in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Courtesy of Lionsgate.
Blyth, who has been a fan of the books and movies since its first release, elaborates on seeing Sutherland’s performance as President Snow and finding out his history in the prequel novel.
Tom Blyth: Watching what Donald Sutherland did with (Coriolanus Snow), that was kind of like, deliciously evil. Then getting to kind of rewind the history tapes and look at why he became like that, and also just question his morality and get to go through that up and down that he goes through in the book. Yeah, I mean it was an absolute dream for me as an actor.
The actor talks further about whether Sutherland’s performance had an impact on how he formed a younger version of the character:
Tom Blyth: Very early on, I kind of put that to the side and Francis and I talked about making it my own, and also just kind of asking what drives him now as opposed to what drives him later on when he is president and a dictator and a tyrant.
Blyth continues:
Tom Blyth: I think what the fans are drawn to as a character is seeing that he’s not just one thing, he ends up as a tyrant, but 64 years before that he was something else entirely. The interesting part is seeing what he goes through to get there. To your point, I think by the end, I wanted him to be more like the President Snow that we know. But at the beginning, he’s something completely different and younger.
3. Rachel Zegler finds similarities in Lucy Gray Baird and Jennifer Lawrence’s Katniss Everdeen
(L to R) Stanley Tucci and Jennifer Lawrence in “The Hunger Games: Catching Fire.” AP Photo/Lionsgate, Murray Close.
When asked whether Zegler took any lessons from Jennifer Lawrence’s performance of Katniss and applied them to her own, she says:
Rachel Zegler: I just think as actors watching Jennifer’s performance in the original trilogy is watching a masterclass performance in general. When it came to the approach of Lucy Gray, I kind of felt like I didn’t have to. I came to what Tom was saying, it kind of puts an unnecessary pressure because it’s a different character at a different time of Panem. I feel like Lucy Gray is a war-torn teenager who’s had everything she knows ripped from her, yet she’s still making the best of it.
The actress talks about Lucy Gray’s impact on Snow and how that haunts him later on in life when he encounters Katniss.
Rachel Zegler: I do think that there’s elements of Katniss within her and that makes it all the more fun to go back and watch the original trilogy and see how Coriolanus remains haunted by Lucy Gray even in his late life because there are echoes of her within Katniss Everdeen.
4. Tom Blyth and Josh Andrés Rivera were the first cast members to meet
A scene from ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Courtesy of Lionsgate.
Rivera plays Sejanus Plinth, who viewed Coriolanus as a close friend. The actors were the first to meet among the cast and formed a bond that carried into their scenes.
Josh André Rivera: We had the real luxury of having that chemistry already be there a bit when we first had to film, because the first scene we shot actually was when Coryo has to rescue Sejanus in the arena, which, if you remember is quite vulnerable and intense, and to have that be your first day is a bit intimidating. It was definitely really nice that we had the luxury to get to know each other beforehand, because I think that manifested a good amount, personally.
Tom Blyth recounts how Rivera accidentally saved him from a potential peanut allergy.
Tom Blyth: One of the earliest scenes in the movie, which is the reaping day scene where all the students and mentors are gathered and then told that it’s the reaping day and that we’re being given mentees, basically. In the scene originally he was supposed to give me some cookies because he realizes that Coryo was hungry and that his family aren’t doing that well, even though they’re keeping up appearances. Josh, every time, went to give me the little packet of cookies and I’d put my hand out to reach them and it would feel really light, and I’d be like, okay, great, I’m supposed to eat them in the scene, and I’d go to open it and there’s no cookies left because Josh has been eating them on set.
5. Who is Tigris Snow?
Hunter Schafer as Tigris Snow in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Murray Close.
In ‘The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes’, we get to see a younger Tigris Snow. She’s a cousin of Coriolanus and is his main support when he is selected as a mentor for the 10th Hunger Games. The character of Tigris Snow can also be seen in ‘The Hunger Games: Mockingjay – Part 2’, portrayed by Eugenie Bondurant.
Hunter Schafer: I distinctly remember her character in the books, and then seeing that character, because she was so striking in the ‘Mockingjay’ movie. But clearly there’s a pretty big jump from this movie to that Tigris, and I am kind of thankful for that because it allowed us to, in the same respect Tom was talking about, create our own take on this Tigris on a visual level and on a character level. It allowed so many of the literal layers of stuff that she has accumulated, by the time we meet her in Mockingjay, to let those fall away for this and kind of just bring a bit of myself into this Tigris, but also having the resource of the book, which is a blessing.
Schafer elaborates that Tigris’ love for fashion is similar to her own.
Hunter Schafer: I think I feel aligned with how she moves throughout the world and uses fashion as an armor, and I also just admire her values towards family and family first, and kind of operating on the fact that she’ll do anything for them.
(L to R) Josh Andrés Rivera as Sejanus Plinth and Tom Blyth as Coriolanus Snow in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Courtesy of Lionsgate.
Played by Josh Andrés Rivera, Sejanus Plinth and his family comes from District 2 and is a student at the Capitol Academy. He forms a close friendship with Coriolanus during the Reaping and the 10th Hunger Games.
Josh Andrés Rivera: Something I really like about him, and that definitely drew me in when we started filming, too, was the amount of friction he has with so many of the characters. Just as far as portraying something goes, that just tends to be the funner kind of thing to do is just having a lot of people disagree with you and try to convince everyone that you’re right. A lot of times, just as an actor, is really fun. His overall belief system and how that contrasted the world that he was in was really yummy.
7. Rachel Zegler sang live for every take during filming
(L to R) Honor Gillies as Barb Azure, Konstantin Taffet as Clerk Carmine and Rachel Zegler as Lucy Gray Baird in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Murray Close.
In the film, Zegler sings a hauntingly beautiful rendition of “The Hang Tree,” first heard in the 2014 film performed by Jennifer Lawrence. The actress talks about her decision to sing live for every take during filming.
Rachel Zegler: it was kind of my choice to sing live on set. I had done it before on my first film, and I feel really confident in that sphere of performance, in general. That was what I kind of came out of the womb doing on stage, so getting to do that for my peers and on set for my crew and the creative team was something really special that I felt like I could bring to the table. When you’re working on sets like that, or when you’re even watching movies, it kind of takes you out of the world when all of a sudden somebody starts lip-syncing, and it just kind of takes you out of it.
The actress felt it was important to the character of Lucy to sing live:
Rachel Zegler: I felt really blessed that Francis and Nina (Jacobson) trusted me to do that, and getting to bring that into the acoustics of the hob or the stage at the reaping and all of the other places, I don’t want to spoil that Lucy Gray gets to sing, it just adds a completely different tone to the scenes. I felt like it was really important, not only to me, but also to the character that I would be doing a disservice if I didn’t perform live every take. It was a lot, and it was very strenuous, but I trained to do it, and I felt really confident with the outcome, and I hope audiences do too.
8. The cast’s favorite costumes and set pieces from the movie
Viola Davis as Dr Volumnia Gaul in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Murray Close.
The Capitol of Panem has always been filled with dazzling and fascinating fashion. Costume designer Trish Summerville (‘Catching Fire’) returns for the prequel movie.
Rachel Zegler: I was definitely curious to see what Trish Summerville was going to do with the rainbow dress because, really, the only description it gets in the book is that there are pink, blue, and yellow ruffles, and that’s it. I was really wondering how she was going to bring it to life, and it was even better than I could have possibly imagined. I think it really speaks for itself, but then also with the rest of her costumes because the rest of her outfits really don’t get described too much in the book. I think Trish just took the Covey love color line and ran with it and in such a beautiful direction.
The cast also recounts seeing locations from the book brought to life by production designer Uli Hanisch.
Tom Blyth: The Hob as a location, for me, was just next level of direction. It was so well done. Actually, what I love about reading a book and then seeing a film adaptation is that sometimes it totally meets your expectations, and you’re like, oh yeah, that’s cathartic because it’s exactly what you had in your mind. Then sometimes your expectation is challenged, and you see something that you’re like, oh, that’s not what I thought at all, it’s even better, it’s even cooler.
9. What music did the cast listen to when getting into character?
(L to R) Tom Blyth as Coriolanus Snow and Rachel Zegler as Lucy Gray Baird in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Courtesy of Lionsgate Films. Photo Credit: Murray Close.
Music plays a huge part in ‘The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ The cast talks about what song or artists got them into character or in the right headspace for a scene.
Hunter Schafer: I think there was one scene where I had to get emotional, and “Sparks” by Coldplay always like…
Rachel Zegler: That does it?
Hunter Schafer: Yeah.
Blyth has several songs on his playlist depending on the scene:
Tom Blyth: I have a pretty extensive Coryo playlist. Music is a big way in for me. I think “Money Power Glory” by Lana Del Rey is the first song on the playlist, and then it goes to “Eleanor Rigby” by The Beatles because that song has always since I was a kid, just made me feel really kind of like kooky, and crazy, it feels unhinged, and so when he undergoes his transformation, that was a big one. Then all the way to Wagner’s “Flight Of The Valkyries” or whatever it’s called when he is feeling epic and royalty. I don’t know, it goes all over the place.
Josh Andrés Rivera: I listened to a lot of Silk Sonic. I don’t know that it got me into character, but I really liked that album.
10. The cast talk about what strategies or weapon they would bring into the Hunger Games if they were to complete
Rachel Zegler as Lucy Gray Baird in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Murray Close.
Rachel Zegler: I feel like I’d have to go the route of Lucy Gray. We were just talking about this earlier, as you do, and I think I would have to win the affections of Panem and then hide and get a lot of sponsors so that I don’t die of hunger, but hide and wait everyone out.
Hunter Schafer: I’m going to go with camouflage because I have a little experience with paint, so I feel like I can go Peeta on them and be a rock or something.
Tom Blyth: I think I like in the movies, in the original franchise, when Peeta does the face paint. I like to think I could do that, but I definitely couldn’t, so I probably would rely on my climbing skills because I’m pretty good at climbing. So, I’d probably climb trees.
Josh Andrés Rivera: I would probably try to make friends with the strong boys and just see how far I can coast under their shoulders before they backstab me eventually. We will worry about that when we get there.
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What is the plot of ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes’?
Years before he would become the tyrannical President of Panem, eighteen-year-old Coriolanus Snow (Tom Blyth) is the last hope for his fading lineage, a once-proud family that has fallen from grace in a post-war Capitol. With the 10th annual Hunger Games fast approaching, the young Snow is alarmed when he is assigned to mentor Lucy Gray Baird (Rachel Zegler), the female tribute from impoverished District 12. But, after Lucy Gray commands Panem’s attention by defiantly singing during the reaping ceremony, Snow thinks he might be able to turn the odds in their favor. Uniting their instincts for showmanship and newfound political savvy, Snow and Lucy Gray’s race against time to survive will ultimately reveal who is a songbird, and who is a snake.
Who is in the cast of ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes’?
Tom Blyth as (‘Billy the Kid‘) Coriolanus “Coryo” Snow
(L to R) Tom Blyth as Coriolanus Snow and Rachel Zegler as Lucy Gray Baird in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Murray Close.
‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes’ is an entertaining prequel that dives deeper into the past of Donald Sutherland’s Coriolanus “Coryo” Snow (no played by Tom Blyth) and the history of the games but is surprisingly a musical at its core. Blyth and co-star Rachel Zegler give impressive performances, but the movie suffers from too many storylines and frivolous characters, resulting in the third act falling apart.
Story and Direction
Director Francis Lawrence in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Murray Close.
Set 64-years before ‘The Hunger Games,’ ‘The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes’ begins by introducing us to a young Coriolanus Snow, played by Tom Blyth. Following the war, Snow’s family has fallen from grace in Panem and he is determined to rise through the ranks and return honor to his family name, no matter the cost. Attending the Academy and pretending to still be wealthy, Snow meets Casca Highbottom (Peter Dinklage), the creator of the Hunger Games and his teacher, who seems to dislike Snow. The class is soon told that to graduate and win the “prize,” they must all be mentors in the 10th Annual Hunger Games.
The head game maker, Dr. Volumnia Gaul (Viola Davis) explains that the games are in danger of being cancelled and begins to implement some of Snow’s new ideas to make them more popular. But Snow is surprised when he is assigned tribute Lucy Gray Baird (Rachel Zegler) from District 12, a traveling musician who is not afraid to take the spotlight. As Lucy and Snow learn to trust each other, the games begin, and that trust is tested. Eventually Snow must choose between his ambition and the life he imagines for himself and his family, and the feelings he has for Lucy.
(L to R) Rachel Zegler as Lucy Gray Baird, Luna Steeples as Dill, Cooper Dillon as Mizzen, Producer Nina Jacobson and Lucas Wilson as Panlo in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Murray Close.
Director Francis Lawrence certainly understands the world that author Suzanne Collins created in the pages of her books, having directed the last three films in the franchise including ‘The Hunger Games: Catching Fire,’ ‘The Hunger Games: Mockingjay – Part 1,’ and ‘The Hunger Games: Mockingjay – Part 2.’ While the tone and feel of the movie is like his other work within the franchise, Lawrence really takes delight in showing us a more primitive society. This is Panem over sixty years before Katniss Everdeen (Jennifer Lawrence) appeared, and while it looks familiar it also looks new and fresh compared to what we’ve seen before.
The script does a good job of reintroducing us to Panem and explains Snow’s family history, as well as setting the stage for his eventual ascension. The movie also takes time to explore some ideas from the original series, using a few callbacks that fans will recognize, but none of it really distracts from the main story, which is Snow and Lucy’s relationship. Thanks, partly to the strong performances from the lead actors, that relationship is believable, and you are invested in the outcome, even if we already know that Snow breaks bad.
It’s Really a Musical!
(L to R) Honor Gillies as Barb Azure, Konstantin Taffet as Clerk Carmine and Rachel Zegler as Lucy Gray Baird in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Murray Close.
One of the fun surprises of the film is that it is secretly a musical. But the music (and characters breaking into song) never feels forced and instead is tied to the story. Remember, Lucy Baird is a musical performer, which gives her an extra edge in this version of the games, and therefore explains why there is so much music in the movie. Obviously, ‘West Side Story’s Rachel Zegler was up to the task, and her musical performances are some of the best sequences in the movie. It also helps endear her character to the audience early on, so we are rooting for her once the games begin. Again, the musical numbers all make sense and do not distract from the rest of the movie, but rather makes the film standout instead of just being another prequel to a popular franchise.
(L to R) Tom Blyth as Coriolanus Snow and Rachel Zegler as Lucy Gray Baird in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Murray Close.
While Rachel Zegler was uniquely qualified to play Lucy Baird given the actress’ musical skills, she also creates a loving, brave and extremely likable character that we root for throughout, even if she is doing a bit of a Dolly Parton impression. The sparks between Lucy and Snow are undeniable from the moment they meet, and while we know Snow’s ultimate outcome, we still root for the couple nonetheless because of the two actors’ wonderful chemistry together.
For his part, actor Tom Blyth probably had the most difficult role, humanizing a beloved villain, and filling the shoes of the great Donald Sutherland to make the two performances over the entire series seamless. Blyth, best known for playing the title character on ‘Billy the Kid,’ has a magnetic quality and absolutely nails the role. He’s completely believable as a young Snow, and yet you also accept him as his own character. While Zegler’s performance is the heart of the movie, Blyth really carries the film on his own throughout and gives a very impressive performance. Blyth has “movie star” written all over him, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see the actor appear in more franchise movies in the future.
The Rest of the Cast
Peter Dinklage as Casca Highbottom in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Murray Close.
Like most films in this franchise, the movie has a huge cast so I can’t name everyone, but I will say that I was impressed with the diverse cast of young actors that were chosen including Hunter Schafer and Sofia Sanchez, who are both standouts. Peter Dinklage is also very good as Snow’s advisor Casca Highbottom. The role has Casca at odds with Snow through most of the film, with his true intentions being revealed by the end, making for an interesting dynamic between the two characters.
But not all the performances worked for me. Viola Davis, who is unarguably one of the best actors working in movies today, is so over-the-top in her performance as Volumnia Gaul, it just took me out of the movie. I know that ‘Hunger Games’ characters can be flamboyant and eccentric, but she seemed more like she was channeling Margaret Hamilton as the Wicked Witch of the West in ‘The Wizard of Oz.’ It was just too much and didn’t seem like a real character.
Unfortunately, the same can be said for Jason Schwartzman, an actor I generally like, playing Lucretius “Lucky” Flickerman. The character is the first TV host of the Hunger Games and assumed to be some relation to Caesar Flickerman (Stanley Tucci) from the original series. While I’m sure Schwartzman based his performance in some way on Tucci’s, and of course was taking his cues from the script, again, the character seemed too over-the-top, even for this franchise, and was not believable in the end.
Viola Davis as Dr Volumnia Gaul in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Murray Close.
Problems with the Third Act
Tom Blyth as Coriolanus Snow in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Courtesy of Lionsgate.
My biggest problem with the movie was the third act, which felt unnecessary and more like an epilogue or something that you would save for a sequel. We’ve come to expect that ‘Hunger Games’ movies usually end when the games are over and we have a clear winner, but that’s not the case with ‘The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes.’ In fact, the film has another 30-45 minutes after that, and it begins to drag because the main story we are invested in, “Will Lucy survive the games?” has already ended. It seems like the movie would have benefited from 20-30 minutes being cut and saving the third act, which is basically Snow’s decision to be a villain, for a sequel.
Will Katniss be in ‘The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes?’
Jennifer Lawrence in 2012’s ‘The Hunger Games.’
The short answer is no. Since the movie is set over sixty years before the events of the original series, Katniss Everdeen hasn’t even been born yet. So, don’t expect Jennifer Lawrence to show up. However, the movie does leave several Easter Eggs, many of which take place in Katniss’ home of District 12. While I won’t give away too many, I will say that the Mockingjays do play a role.
Final Thoughts
In the end, ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes’ is a worthy prequel and a justifiable continuation of the franchise. Its musical format is refreshing, and fans of the original series will enjoy returning to Panem and discovering Snow’s backstory. Tom Blyth and Rachel Zegler’s strong performances and great chemistry together help carry the film, but with a third act that seems disjointed from the main story, the movie eventually falls under its own weight.
‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes’ receives 7.5 out of 10 stars.
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What is the plot of ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes’?
Years before he would become the tyrannical President of Panem, eighteen-year-old Coriolanus Snow (Tom Blyth) is the last hope for his fading lineage, a once-proud family that has fallen from grace in a post-war Capitol. With the 10th annual Hunger Games fast approaching, the young Snow is alarmed when he is assigned to mentor Lucy Gray Baird (Rachel Zegler), the female tribute from impoverished District 12. But, after Lucy Gray commands Panem’s attention by defiantly singing during the reaping ceremony, Snow thinks he might be able to turn the odds in their favor. Uniting their instincts for showmanship and newfound political savvy, Snow and Lucy Gray’s race against time to survive will ultimately reveal who is a songbird, and who is a snake.
Who is in the cast of ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes’?
Tom Blyth as (‘Billy the Kid’) Coriolanus “Coryo” Snow
Moviefone recently had the pleasure of speaking with director Francis Lawrence and longtime ‘Hunger Games’ producer Nina Jacobson about their work on ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes.’
The director and producer discussed their new movie, returning to Panem, the challenges of making a prequel, casting Tom Blyth and Rachel Zegler, and how the film is really a musical!
(Left) ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes’ director Francis Lawrence. (Right) ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes’ producer Nina Jacobson.
You can read the full interview below or click on the video player above to watch our interviews.
Moviefone: To begin with, Nina, at what point did you realize adapting Suzanne Collins ‘The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes’ and exploring Coriolanus Snow’s history would be the next chapter of this film series?
Nina Jacobson: I did not know that until late 2019. We were all in the depths of Covid and I got a phone call from Suzanne saying, “Both Francis and I’ve got something I want you to read. It’s in the world of ‘The Hunger Games.’ It’s period, it’s 64 years before the rest of the books and movies. There’s one critical character who is a carryover character from the movies and books and there’s a lot of music in it.” So that’s what we knew coming into it. Of course, the question is when you sit down to read a book or watch a movie that is about a character who you already know you don’t like, you hate him, that is a real challenge. But what I found that she did so effectively was on the one hand, to show him in all his dimensions, he is not a Boy Scout by any stretch. He is a flawed, complex self-interested survivor on the one hand, and yet he is also not fully formed, and he is, I think, really turned upside down by the events of this story and a lot of his most essential core assumptions are upended. That to see how all of that ultimately shapes and shifts him to become the man that he will be, and to know that he’s going to get there and still find yourself rooting for him to somehow go another way in spite of your knowledge that he will not, and yet find it super satisfying when he finally does break bad was actually a very fun thing to get to work on as long as we could find an actor who could do all of that. Because it really does take an enormous amount of skill, nuance and subtlety. We were very, very fortunate when we finally saw Tom to see that there was a young actor who could do all of the things that he would need to do and still conjure up the belief that this could be a person who would grow up to be Donald Sutherland.
Director Francis Lawrence in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Murray Close.
MF: Francis, as a director what was it like for you to return to the world of ‘The Hunger Games,’ which you helped create on screen, and have a chance to explore Snow’s backstory with this prequel?
Francis Lawrence: I mean, it was super exciting. Look, we were surprised that Suzanne wrote another book. There were no plans. When we finished ‘The Mockingjay,’ she was moving on to other stuff. Then in 2019 she called us and said, “I’m almost done with the book.” Nina and I were shocked, excited, read it, and then I got more excited. I love villain origin stories and was super excited and up for the challenge, as well as rebuilding Panem in a way, in essence doing a period piece to the original films. So it was just all around exciting to come back.
A scene from ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Courtesy of Lionsgate.
MF: Obviously, fans are familiar with the world of ‘The Hunger Games,’ but this is an earlier time-period in the story than audiences have seen before. Can you talk about creating a new tone for this prequel?
FL: It’s interesting. I didn’t instinctively decide for the tone to feel different. I think what ended up happening, which was kind of a pleasant discovery, was that there’s something about the rudimentary nature of this world, the technology and the Games, and the period of it all that grounded it in a different way. So, the other ones, being a little further in the future, there’s a more fantastical element to some of the wardrobe, to the arenas for sure, that it just brought a more fantastical element to the tone, where this feels much more authentic, grounded, and realistic. I think makes some moments more intense and maybe more jarring than the other films. I was really pleased with that, that it still feels like a ‘Hunger Games’ movie, but it has its own sort of unique twist, tonally, obviously narratively, but also in the world building.
(L to R) Tom Blyth as Coriolanus Snow and Rachel Zegler as Lucy Gray Baird in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Courtesy of Lionsgate Films. Photo Credit: Murray Close.
MF: Francis, can you talk about casting Tom Blyth and Rachel Zegler and why they were the right actors for these pivotal roles?
FL: Tom kind of came out of the blue for me. I was not familiar with his show (‘Billy the Kid’). He did a self-tape. He read for the part. His tape came in and I thought, “Wow.” Physically, I could see how he, with his big blue eyes, could kind of become Donald Sutherland, Snow, when he got older. But he’s super talented, Julliard trained, and great at his craft. I knew he’d be able to pull off all the facets we needed for the journey. But also, he’s a very intelligent guy, very sophisticated, and that was one of the extremely important elements, that if you are believably going to become Donald Sutherland, you must be intelligent and you must be sophisticated. He had that. Rachel, Lucy Gray’s a performer. We needed a singer, and we also needed a great actress and somebody that could play all the different sides and facets to Lisa Gray. She’s a bit of a mystery, a little mercurial, extroverted, a charmer and a performer. Rachel could do all of that.
(L to R) Honor Gillies as Barb Azure, Konstantin Taffet as Clerk Carmine and Rachel Zegler as Lucy Gray Baird in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Murray Close.
MF: Finally, the movie is a musical! Can you both talk about that and why the music is important to the story you are telling?
FL: I mean music, it’s funny, when Suzanne first told me that she was writing this book and almost done she didn’t want to tell me the story, but she did say there was a big music element to it, which intrigued me. I then discovered that Suzanne is a big fan of country music and had written a bunch of the lyrics for the songs in the movie. We worked with Dave Cobb, the Nashville producer- songwriter who wrote the chord progressions, melodies, and put this great little band together. We built this roster of songs that are based on songs that would’ve been in Appalachia in the ’20s and ’30s, sort of like circa the Carter Family, which is also a period of country music that I’m a huge fan of. But it’s that idea that those songs are stories and ballads that have been passed down from England, Ireland, Scotland, through generations and then turned into songs. So, you feel a time and a place and there’s kind of a haunting quality to a lot of these songs. But I thought everybody just did a great job. Rachel sings live on this whole thing, I will say.
(L to R) Rachel Zegler as Lucy Gray Baird, Luna Steeples as Dill, Cooper Dillon as Mizzen, Producer Nina Jacobson and Lucas Wilson as Panlo in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Murray Close.
NJ: It was a real opportunity for us because music has always been instrumental in these stories, whether it’s James Newton Howard‘s incredible scores, or the way that songs like ‘The Hanging Tree,’ the song that Peeta (Josh Hutcherson) remembers from Katniss (Jennifer Lawrence), the song that Katniss sings to her sister and to Rue (Amandla Stenberg). Music has always been super important. However, we have never had a character who is a performer who’s going to get up on stage and sing, and that was a huge opportunity for us. Also, a huge source of, “Well, we better not blow that, or It’s going to really be a disaster if the second she starts to sing, people burst out laughing.” So, getting it to fit tonally, making sure that it felt grounded, that it felt deserved, that it felt like an earned musical moment, not a number, was a real challenge. We were really blessed to have both in Suzanne, an incredible student of music history and fan of early American music, the roots of folk, country, Americana, and then to find in Dave Cobb, somebody who shared those obsessions. They had an incredible meeting of the mind, and then the melodies that he created and the way that he took her lyrics brought them to life, and then the musicians that he chose to record with to bring these songs off the page. It was an incredible moment of discovery, excitement and emotion, seeing Rachel sing those songs on set because she chose to sing live virtually every time, which is incredibly unusual. It’s a real rarity for a person to want to sing live every take, and then to just destroy it every time and just leave you like a puddle on the floor. It was really something, and it was enormously fun to get to do. The songs would get to be really stuck in your head, and you’d have to go and do a long Spotify playlist if you wanted to shake the earworm, that was the only downside.
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What is the plot of ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes’?
Years before he would become the tyrannical President of Panem, eighteen-year-old Coriolanus Snow (Tom Blyth) is the last hope for his fading lineage, a once-proud family that has fallen from grace in a post-war Capitol. With the 10th annual Hunger Games fast approaching, the young Snow is alarmed when he is assigned to mentor Lucy Gray Baird (Rachel Zegler), the female tribute from impoverished District 12. But, after Lucy Gray commands Panem’s attention by defiantly singing during the reaping ceremony, Snow thinks he might be able to turn the odds in their favor. Uniting their instincts for showmanship and newfound political savvy, Snow and Lucy Gray’s race against time to survive will ultimately reveal who is a songbird, and who is a snake.
Who is in the cast of ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes’?
Tom Blyth as (‘Billy the Kid’) Coriolanus “Coryo” Snow
Premiering on MGM+ beginning October 15th is season 2 of the popular series ‘Billy the Kid,’ which was created by Michael Hirst (‘Elizabeth’).
What is the plot of ‘Billy the Kid’ Season 2?
Based on the real life of legendary American outlaw Billy the Kid, and following the events of the first season, season two sees Billy (Tom Blyth) and his allies squaring off against his oldest friend Jesse Evans (Daniel Webber) and the corrupt powers of the Santa Fe Ring. When shots are fired, the conflict erupts into the bloody Lincoln County War. Amidst the fighting, Billy will struggle to hang onto his soul—and to the love of his life.
Who is in the cast of ‘Billy the Kid’ Season 2?
Tom Blyth in ‘Billy the Kid’ season 2. Photo: Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc.
Moviefone recently had the pleasure of speaking with show creator and executive producer Michael Hirst about season 2 of ‘Billy the Kid,’ what fans can expect from the new season, why making Westerns are so much fun, working with actor Tom Blyth, casting Linus Roache, Billy and Tunstall’s relationship, and why we as a public are still fascinated by the legend of Billy the Kid.
(Right) Tom Blyth in ‘Billy the Kid’ season 2. Photo: Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc.
You can read the full interview below or click on the video player above to watch the interview.
Moviefone: To begin with, war is coming to Lincoln County in season 2 of ‘Billy the Kid.’ Can you talk about that and where we will find the characters when the new season starts?
Michael Hirst: So in a way, the first season of ‘Billy’ is a preparation for the Lincoln County War, because in Billy’s life that was pivotal. It was where he became famous around America and ultimately famous around the world. Strangely enough, I loved Billy when I was a kid of eight years old growing up in the north of England. He was a hero, but I didn’t just want to write about a cliche. I didn’t want to write about an outlaw, someone who just comes in the room shooting everyone, and who many people would regard as probably a pathological killer or there’s something wrong. The more research I did about him, I just discovered this really sensitive, young boy brought up by a mother who told him great stories, but was a very profound Catholic, and gave him a moral compass. That his father kind of stepped out of the family and couldn’t cope with America. The family, they were immigrants, and they were sent by the American government to one of the wildest, most dangerous parts of the country at the time. So, I wanted people to know that story. I wanted to dramatize that story. I wanted people to empathize with him. I was also, of course, introducing along the way other characters like Jesse Evans and the sheriff, who we’re going to crop up later. So we get to the Lincoln County Wars, and this is obviously where the stuff hits the fan. I mean, this is what you might call a real Western because there’s a shooting of a sheriff. There’s a lot of violence and brutality, and all centered around this commercial rivalry between two outfits, one of whom is Murphy’s Store, which has always had a monopoly of trading in that area of New Mexico because they were attached to this thing called the Santa Fe Ring, this group of very rich American businessmen who ran everything in New Mexico. They’re being challenged by an Englishman called Tunstall. Tunstall has problems with his father too, but then he comes to prove himself, but he doesn’t realize what he’s getting into. But he’s happy to hire Billy to be on his team because Billy already has a certain reputation. There are wanted posters for him, and everyone who works for Tunstall really says, “Look, who’s joining us now.” His ex-friend Jesse Evans, is with the House. So we are in a different world now, and it’s darker. It’s edgier. It’s still about the things that Billy cared about when he was growing up, that is to say immigrant issues. He sees what’s happening to the Mexicans. He always identifies with the underdogs. He has a profound sense of the injustices of the world and America at the time, as he was 19, which a lot of young people do. I hadn’t thought about that when I started, I was just concentrating on Billy. But these issues are contemporary. They resonate. They’re real issues now. The Lincoln County Wars, which killed about over 20 people in this nowhere town in New Mexico, became the scene of these horrific and insane murderous acts by people. I mean, the value of life was so low at that point. Billy takes a leadership role in these events, even though he’s 19, and goes through a terrible experience basically. So second season, we’ve upgraded in many ways. It’s a great production, great cast who love the show. It’s a very friendly company of people. But we don’t work at a studio. It’s all on location, and it’s all with real cowboys because Calgary, where it’s shot, is a center for cowboys. They have rodeos there. So our young cast has been riding with real cowboys. It’s just been a blast for them.
(L to R) Tom Blyth and Linus Roache in ‘Billy the Kid’ season 2. Photo: Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc.
MF: Director John Ford once said, “If they knew how fun it is to make Westerns, they wouldn’t let us do it.” Do you agree with that? Is it fun making a Western?
MH: Well, it is fun making a Western, partly because of your sense of tradition. I don’t feel that I work in genres, and I don’t feel this is a traditional Western particularly. But you are aware of the tropes, and some of the relationships are what I would call sort of classical Western relationships that people have. So all that’s fun. The energy that goes into it and the fact that there are always horses, cattle, and crows on the set all the time, that everyone’s dealing with these things, and it’s very real. The cowboys are teaching the actors how to lasso cows and everything. So it’s incredible.
Tom Blyth in ‘Billy the Kid’ season 2. Photo: Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc.
MF: Can you talk about working with Tom Blyth and his charming yet vulnerable performance as Billy?
MH: It’s been magical. It’s been wonderful. This is his first big role, and he’s only, I think, a year out of college. He was one of the first people to throw his hat into the ring. But I think we saw 400 people for the role. Obviously initially, we thought it’s got to be an American. The very first thing, of course, was he sent us a picture of himself or his agent did, and he looked like Billy. That was really weird. It’s like, “Whoa, wait a minute. This is too good to be true.” So we were going through all these young actors, and of course, many of them were very good, but they didn’t quite have what he had, which you sort of mentioned in a way. It’s a kind of steeliness and a sensitivity that you can tell is going on at the same time. His eyes are steely, but you know he’s sensitive, and I wanted that desperately. As I say, the last thing I wanted was a pathological killer. I wanted someone who was very human, but was capable of doing the things that he actually did. But it went on for quite a while, this process. I was throwing rocks in a way, because this guy, we didn’t know much about him at all. So I would say things like, “You know that Billy was actually famous for singing. He had a beautiful voice, and could play the guitar. He sang and he danced. Who knew?” So the next thing I know, Tom sends me a tape in which he’s playing his guitar and singing beautifully. I said, “All right.” We did go for him, and that was one of the best, obviously, decisions we’ve made in the whole thing, because it’s about him, and he has to carry it. Certainly, in the first season, he was just about in every scene. I mean, that’s quite something.
Linus Roache in ‘Billy the Kid’ season 2. Photo: Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc.
MF: Can you talk about casting Linus Roache as Tunstall and the father/son relationship he creates with Billy?
MH: That was a big decision at the end of season one, mainly because I knew that meeting Tunstall was going to be a monumental thing for Billy. It was going to change Billy’s life forever. So the relationship between Billy and Tunstall had to be very deep and significant, and we didn’t have long to build it up. We liked the guy who played Tunstall in season one, but he was too young to be the surrogate father. You wouldn’t believe it. And Linus and I actually are great friends. He was in ‘Vikings.’ He played a big role in ‘Vikings.’ We’re great friends, and we talk all the time. I wanted him on the show desperately. I wanted him for many roles in the show, but actually Tunstall fitted him like a glove. It was mainly the fact that he could talk to Billy sensitively, and he could talk about his own family, his father and all the things that concerned Billy, and his sisters and all that. That Billy, whose father just walked out of his life and died because he couldn’t cope with America, had really missed having a father. He saw his mother working herself to death because there was no father. So he did become Billy’s surrogate father. I knew Linus could bring that off. I knew that in the few scenes he had with Billy, they could establish a huge and deep rapport because Linus is a great and understated actor. He was a Shakespearian actor initially. He was so extraordinarily brilliant in ‘Vikings’ that I’ve felt myself very lucky that he came back and was in ‘Billy.’
(Center) Daniel Webber in ‘Billy the Kid’ season 2. Photo: Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc.
MF: Finally, there have been countless movies and TV programs over the years based on the legend of Billy the Kid. Why do you think we as a public are so interested in this outlaw’s story?
MH: Yeah, I’ve thought about this. It may be because he’s not Jesse James. He’s a much younger guy, and he doesn’t rob banks. He’s not actually a conventional outlaw at all. As I say, he doesn’t want to be an outlaw. He wants to go straight. I mean, all the other famous outlaws chose to be outlaws, like Jesse Evans does in the show. He’s a born outlaw. He doesn’t ever want to go straight. Billy desperately wants to go straight. Everyone who knew him absolutely loved him. So I’ve been reading a book by someone who rode with him and repeats some of the things that Billy said. When you hear the voice in your head, you could say, “I like that guy. That guy’s really interesting and nice.” I think there are lots of reasons. That there is something incredibly attractive about a very young guy who can do phenomenal things. Let’s just take it as a Western. He could ride unlike anyone else. He could shoot unlike anyone else. He was as brave as anything. I don’t think he knew fear. There was no jail that could hold him. All those things are true about him, and they make a good myth. But what’s also true about him is, I think, he was very human and a nice guy, and I would’ve liked to meet him.
Tom Blyth in ‘Billy the Kid’ season 2. Photo: Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc.
(L to R) Rachel Zegler as Lucy Gray Baird and Tom Blyth as Coriolanus Snow in ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo Credit: Murray Close.
Stars Rachel Zegler and Tom Blyth are shown in character in what looks like a surprisingly relaxed moment for a ‘Hunger Games’ movie, which usually busy themselves with showing young people battling in a post-apocalyptic environment.
‘The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes’ is set 64 years before the story of Jennifer Lawrence’s Katniss Everdeen. In this throwback to an earlier era of the Hunger Games, the new narrative follows 18-year-old Coriolanus Snow (Blyth) long before he’s the cunning president of post-apocalyptic nation Panem.
Snow is the last hope for his fading lineage, a once-proud family that has fallen from grace in a post-war Capitol. With the 10th annual Hunger Games fast approaching, the young Snow is alarmed when he is assigned to mentor Lucy Gray Baird (Zegler), the girl tribute from impoverished District 12.
But, after Lucy Gray commands all of Panem’s attention by defiantly singing during the reaping ceremony, Snow thinks he might be able to turn the odds in their favor. Uniting their instincts for showmanship and newfound political savvy, Snow and Lucy’s race against time to survive will ultimately reveal who is a songbird and a snake.”
Rachel Zegler to star as Lucy Gray Baird in Lionsgate’s ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.’ Photo credit: Nathan Johnson.
It’s all adapted from ‘Hunger Games’ novelist Suzanne Collins’ 2020 prequel book, and the film, written by Michael Lesslie (working from initial drafts by Collins and Michael Arndt) does promise to be quite different from the other films – while still feeling of a piece.
“It’s completely different stylistically, in terms of design, character, and point of view,” producer Nina Jacobsontells Vanity Fair. “To be able to show a different side of Panem at a different time in its history has been really exciting.”
“This is very much a story about love,” Lawrence says. “It’s this kind of love story set in a different kind of a world in a different time. A very intimate love story.”
But fans of the original book trilogy and the four movies that it spawned won’t be let down in terms of callbacks.
“Suzanne has done such a great job of going back into the mythology and telling a story about the creation of the world,” adds Lawrence. “You get a little background of Katniss. You will obviously get a lot of the background of Snow, the history of the Games, the history of some of the music, where songs like ‘The Hanging Tree’ actually come from.”
