Currently available to watch on HBO Max and a serious contender in this upcoming awards season is the box office smash hit ‘Sinners’ which was written and directed by Ryan Coogler (‘Black Panther’) and stars Michael B. Jordan (‘Creed’) playing the dual roles of twin brothers Smoke and Stack.
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Moviefone recently had the pleasure of sitting down in-person with director Ryan Coogler and Michael B. Jordan to talk about their work on ‘Sinners’, why Coogler was passionate about making this movie and the themes he wanted to explore, while Jordan discussed his approach to playing the Moore brothers and how he made the two roles distinctively different.
(L to R) Director Ryan Coogler and Michael B. Jordan talk ‘Sinners’.
You can watch the full interview below or click on the video player above to watch our interviews.
Moviefone: To begin with, Ryan, can you talk about why you were so passionate about making this movie and the themes you wanted to explore as a filmmaker?
Ryan Coogler: It started with my relationship with my uncle James, who was born in Mississippi, lived there until he was 20, and then moved to Oakland and married my great-aunt, Sammy Lee, who the character Sammy is named after. It was important for me to explore blues music, Mississippi, the Delta Blues and juke joint culture because it was so important to my uncle. It’s kind of passed down to me, and I wanted to do a deep dive on why that music was so important really to a global popular culture. But I also wanted to infuse it with everything in cinema that I loved that I hadn’t had a chance to do yet in my previous films. That’s where the supernatural and the genre elements come to play. As far as the themes, the biggest theme was freedom. You know what I mean? This idea of it, how elusive it can be, how sometimes it can’t be bought. That was the central concept of freedom in these people that are under such great oppression and having to be able to affirm that humanity in a place and a time when it was very difficult.
MF: Finally, Michael, can you talk about the challenges of playing twin brothers and how you were able to make those two characters so distinctively different?
Michael B. Jordan: There were so many challenges. There’s been versions of twins that have been done, and some better than others, and trying to figure out how to make this one a memorable one or just make it work and feel honest. I remember as a kid watching movies like ‘The Parent Trap’, you know what I’m saying? Just as a kid, your imagination, whether you’re pretending you got superpowers or pretending this or whatever, the idea of like, man, if I had a twin, what would I do? Or how would that be? I think being able to imagine that because Smoke and Stack are the same, but they’re completely different. They make up one person. Having Smoke and how he handles his childhood trauma was important and Stack and how he handles his childhood trauma. They had the same experiences, but they have two different perspectives on it. For Smoke, he internalizes a lot of his. He doesn’t talk a lot. He doesn’t want to talk about his pain. He wants to bury it deep and kind of hold onto to that. I know people like that. So, to be able to tap into that in a real way. But Stack is different. He smiles and uses his charm, and he talks his way through his pain because he can’t dwell on it for too long. So, to tap into your childhood trauma and building those characters from the ground up was crucial to build that foundation for me to do the rest of the work and the other things, the layers on top of that like wearing a shoe that is too small for Stack because he’s always moving around. He just never really standing still. As a performer, as an actor, it’s something that I didn’t have to think about, but it helped me be agitated in times and physically be not still. But also, I wore a size too big when it came to Smoke because I wanted him to feel like he couldn’t move a lot and he wanted to be rooted and implanted into the ground. So those were layers to it. The different grill caps that I wore, when I had a certain gold front in, it changed the way I would hold my mouth and speak and my cadence. Smoke spoke few words and slow. Stack was a fast talker, so he was always smiling, always wheeling and always dealing. He’s always selling something. Those are some of the things that I tapped into to kind of help make them a bit different. Just the storytelling, the other characters around Smoke and Stack that allowed me to play off of with Annie and Mary and those dynamics and just a rich world that was created for these characters to blend into.
Two brothers (Michael B. Jordan) return to Clarksdale, Mississippi, in 1932, now wealthy and intent on opening a juke joint in their hometown. But as they open the doors of their new establishment, sinister forces begin to converge upon them and their community.
Director Ryan Coogler and his muse/partner Michael B. Jordan are now five for five. Following ‘Fruitvale Station,’ ‘Creed,’ and the two ‘Black Panther’ entries (yes, we’ll stand up for ‘Wakanda Forever’ despite anti-MCU sentiment in the critical community), ‘Sinners’ is another outright winner for the filmmaker and star, and even better, it’s a wholly original piece of material that’s also ambitious, audacious, and at times even transcendent – not to mention a wildly smart genre hybrid.
Once again, Coogler and company have taken populist entertainment – this time mixing the horror genre with the historical drama – and infused it with social commentary, spiritual themes, action beats, and an almost poetic tribute to the time-bending power of music. The film has its flaws, but so much of it works so well, from the cast to the music to the incredible production design to the overall atmosphere – that you’ll walk out of ‘Sinners’ feeling like you’ve seen one of the most unique movies of the year.
As ‘Sinners’ begins, an opening narration tells us that some people have such a powerful gift of making music that it can “pierce the veil” between the worlds of the living and the dead. With that, we see a bloodied and beaten young man, who we will come to know as Preacher Boy Sam (Miles Caton), appear at the door of the church where his father is pastor. He’s carrying the broken neck of a guitar, and his father admonishes him to “leave those sinning ways.”
The movie then flashes back to “one day earlier” in the town of Clarksdale, Mississippi. The year is 1932. Returning on this day to the area’s Black community are brothers “Smoke” and “Stack” Moore – the “SmokeStack Twins” – both played by Michael B. Jordan. With their expensive suits and car, as well as the wads of cash in their pockets, they immediately stand out from the impoverished community of laborers and sharecroppers around them. Smoke, who’s tougher and more business-minded, and Stack, who is more jovial and reckless, are back in town after spending years away, first fighting in World War I and then finding their way to Chicago, where they allegedly made their fortune working for Al Capone.
Their first action upon returning to Clarksdale is to purchase an abandoned mill outside town from a man who may or may not be a KKK leader (“The Klan doesn’t exist anymore,” he unconvincingly tells them). They aim to turn the mill into a juke joint and open it that night, with entertainment to be provided by old blues musician Delta Slim (Delroy Lindo) and the twins’ cousin, Preacher Boy Sam, for whom the word “soulful” doesn’t begin to describe his ability to sing and play the blues.
‘Sinners’ unpacks its story and characters – which include Smoke’s former flame, Annie (Wunmi Mosaku), who knows magic and who shares a tragic past with Smoke, as well as Stack’s old girlfriend, Mary (Hailee Steinfeld), who is part Black but looks white enough that their relationship might well have caused a scandal – in leisurely, novelistic fashion. But it’s never anything but fascinating to watch, thanks to the sharply drawn characters and pungent dialogue in Coogler’s screenplay, his fluid direction, Autumn Durald Arkapaw’s stunning cinematography, and the textured, incredibly detailed production design by Hannah Beachler. Then there’s the music – a combination of Ludwig Göransson’s original score and old blues standards that is as haunting as it is evocative.
It’s that music – particularly the music performed by Preacher Boy Sam – that attracts not just a boisterous crowd to Smoke and Stack’s juke joint that night but fuels one of the most incredible sequences you’ll see in a movie this or any other year. Music, we’re told, will bring together the spirits of both the past and the future – which it does in a breathtaking sequence that ricochets through both the history of music and the Black experience in one gloriously kaleidoscopic dance of images that is almost transcendent in its power.
But the music attracts other forces from the realm of the dead as well…and since the trailers already give it away, it’s okay to say here that the juke joint soon finds itself under siege by a trio of vampires, led by Remmick (Jack O’Connell), who quickly go about turning the customers and the Moores’ dwindling band of friends and family into creatures of the night. “It’s better this way,” says one character who has been transformed late in the film, suggesting that Remmick is creating a new species for which boundaries of race, color, and gender have no meaning.
That’s just one of the intriguing ideas that Coogler springs on us during the course of ‘Sinners,’ and if anything this densely packed film has almost too many of them. Questions of race, identity, history, violence against Black bodies, and the power of art flow liberally through the film, which is by turns exhilarating, frightening, erotic, distressing, and poignant. The introduction of a supernatural terror halfway through a historical drama is a bit abrupt, and the third act feels both rushed and drawn out as the climactic confrontation with the vampires leads to a fistful of additional endings and mid-credits sequences (a bit of an MCU hangover for Coogler, perhaps). But even when it wobbles slightly down the stretch, ‘Sinners’ doesn’t feel like any other movie you’re likely to see anytime soon.
In a career already full of sparking performances, ‘Sinners’ may contain Michael B. Jordan’s best work yet. Assisted by seamless visual effects, he delivers two fully-rounded performances as Smoke and Stack, differentiating the two brothers with subtle changes in tone, speech, and body language, while firmly delineating the deep bond between the two.
Smoke has been hardened by the world, doesn’t believe much in magic or the spiritual, and has no time for fun; he thinks that accumulating power (mostly in the form of cash) will give him freedom. Stack is much more hedonistic, given to flamboyance in his clothing, spending, and behavior, and much more in tune with earthly pleasures. Both men’s beliefs are tested and both are deeply changed by the end of the film, and it’s a tribute to Jordan’s incredible skills that you always feel you are watching two separate personalities on their own journeys.
While ‘Sinners’ showcases Jordan’s accomplishment, the rest of the cast is just as powerful. 19-year-old Miles Caton is a real find, providing not just a complex performance as Sam but a singing voice that is nothing short of awesome, providing a credible basis for the film’s mystical view of music. Delroy Lindo is nothing short of great (as usual) as Delta Slim, the blues player at the other end of his career who has seen it all. And while the vampires are not given as much ground to develop as characters, Jack O’Connell’s Remmick is a deft combination of malice, charisma, and temptation, with the story showing how these monsters can still be stirred by music as well (especially in one eerie sequence involving an Irish folk song).
Importantly, every woman in ‘Sinners’ also gets her due, from Wunmi Mosaku’s no-nonsense Annie to Hailee Steinfeld’s Mary, both of whom are courageous, confident, sexually liberated, and capable of moving on from deep tragedies in their lives. Mosaku’s performance is full of texture, compassion, and depth, while Steinfeld succeeds in nailing the role of a woman who is trapped between two worlds but knows which one she feels more at home with. Also notable is Li Jun Li (‘Babylon’) as Grace Chow, who runs grocery stores in town with her husband Bo (Yao) and is as deft in handling her business with both Blacks and whites as she is in fighting vampires.
‘Sinners’ is a luscious, genuinely cinematic experience that deserves every inch of the IMAX screen you should see it on. Even if we wish the horror elements were introduced a little more organically, and even if the film’s closing sequences don’t work as effectively as they could, one can still feel Coogler’s earnest, heartfelt search for truth throughout: What makes anyone truly free? Love? Power? Money? Talent? What does it mean to be free if you know that freedom is merely a façade?
These are the questions ‘Sinners’ raises and leaves one pondering as the credits roll. This thoughtfully conceived, masterfully executed epic doesn’t provide all the answers, but instead brings the viewer on a journey that is haunting, terrifying, emotionally resonant, and powerful in its exploration of community, shared experience, and how the incursion of evil can threaten to rip those apart.
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What is the plot of ‘Sinners’?
Two brothers (Michael B. Jordan) return to Clarksdale, Mississippi, in 1932, now wealthy and intent on opening a juke joint in their hometown. But as they open the doors of their new establishment, sinister forces begin to converge upon them and their community.
