Jean Smart as Deborah Vance in Season 5 of ‘Hacks’. Photo: Courtesy of HBO Max.
Arriving on HBO Max on April 6 with the first episode (of 10) is the fifth and final season of ‘Hacks’, which returns us to the world of caustic, charismatic comedian Deborah Vance, as brought to award-winning life by Jean Smart.
(L to R) Hannah Einbinder as Ava Daniels and Jean Smart as Deborah Vance in Season 5 of ‘Hacks’. Photo: Courtesy of HBO Max.
Like coming up with the perfect punchline for a stand-up routine, ending a TV series is no easy task. For ‘Hacks’, which charts the unlikely mentorship between Deborah Vance, a long-established, wealthy comedian, and Ava Daniels, a struggling younger comedy writer.
As the show has gone on, we’ve seen every shade of the professional relationship and personal friendship between the pair, from being in sync to very much not. But as the story comes to a close, there are certainly plenty of last laughs to be had.
Script and Direction
(L to R) Megan Stalter as Kayla, Hannah Einbinder as Ava, Mark Indelicato as Damien, Jean Smart as Deborah and Paul W. Downs as Jimmy in Season 5 of ‘Hacks’. Photo: Courtesy of HBO Max.
Show creators Lucia Aniello, Paul W. Downs and Jen Statsky (with the trio also directing the majority of this season’s episodes) bring a particularly entertaining dynamic to the screen with the show –– Deborah and Ava’s partnership is always a weird one, and the stories work well.
The team has also delivered on the wider world of ‘Hacks’, including Deborah’s employees and the various characters they interact with. As to whether the show wraps up in satisfying fashion, I’d have to say a qualified yes. One big plot point towards the end feels a little rushed, but on the whole, the season works.
Cast and Performances
(L to R) Kaitlin Olson as DJ and Jean Smart as Deborah in Season 5 of ‘Hacks’. Photo: Courtesy of HBO Max.
Smart and Einbinder have been well awarded for their work, and the Deborah/Ava side of things has certainly entered a friendlier aspect as the story winds down. Which isn’t to say anything is complacent –– there is certainly rich comedy to be found here.
Downs as Ava and Deborah’s endlessly stressed manager Jimmy goes on his own journey here, with Megan Stalter once again stealing scenes as sidekick Kayla. And among the recurring guest cast, special mention goes to Kaitlin Olson (as Deborah’s daughter DJ, who has her own hilarious episode with her mother) and Lauren Weedman, who is always memorable as the wacky Mayor of Vegas.
Final Thoughts
Lauren Weedman as Mayor Jo in Season 5 of ‘Hacks’. Photo: Courtesy of HBO Max.
The idea of Deborah on a mission and how Ava helps/hinders her might feel a little familiar, but the creative team has found a welcome, warm way to wind down the series, featuring grace notes for recurring characters and keeping you invested in the main story.
‘Hacks’ Season 5 receives 78 out of 100.
(L to R) Jean Smart as Deborah, Carl Clemons-Hopkins as Marcus, Rose Abdoo as Josefina and Mark Indelicato as Damien in Season 5 of ‘Hacks’. Photo: Courtesy of HBO Max.
What’s the plot of ‘Hacks’ Season 5?
In the aftermath of mistaken and unflattering news reports that she passed away, Deborah Vance (Jean Smart) and Ava (Hannah Einbinder) return to Las Vegas more determined than ever to secure Deborah’s legacy as a comedian.
Who stars in ‘Hacks’ Season 5?
Jean Smart as Deborah Vance
Hannah Einbinder as Ava Daniels
Carl Clemons-Hopkins as Marcus Vaughan
Megan Stalter as Kayla Schaefer
Paul W. Downs as Jimmy LuSaque Jr.
Mark Indelicato as Damien Asada Agosto
Kaitlin Olson as Deborah “DJ” Vance Jr.
Christopher McDonald as Marty Ghilain
(L to R) Jean Smart as Deborah, Poppy Liu as Kiki and Hannah Einbinder as Ava in Season 5 of ‘Hacks’. Photo: Courtesy of HBO Max.
(L to R) Jean Smart and Hannah Einbinder in Season 4 of ‘Hacks’. Photograph by Courtesy of Max.
‘Hacks’ Season 4 receives 8 out of 10 stars.
Arriving on Max with its first two episodes on April 10th (a further eight arrive weekly except for one other two-episode block for Emmy eligibility reasons), ‘Hacks’ returns with a fourth season on the back of considerable awards success.
And there is good news for fans, who will find the show’s prickly, funny energy undimmed as the leads, played by Jean Smart and Hannah Einbinder, bicker and find ways to work together.
(L to R) Jean Smart and Helen Hunt in Season 4 of ‘Hacks’. Photograph by Courtesy of Max.
‘Hacks’ has become, on awards haul alone, one of the more successful comedies of recent years, all the more impressive when you consider that, outside of some network heavy hitters and the occasional surprise such as ‘Nobody Wants This,’ the genre has seemed to struggle.
And with Season 4 now arriving on screens, the pressure is on further, since ‘Hacks’ not only has to keep flying the genre flag, but has to live up to three successful previous seasons. It’s a relief to note, then, that the laughs keep coming, and the heart also remains in the show.
Script and Direction
(L to R) Hannah Einbinder and Jean Smart in Season 4 of ‘Hacks’. Photograph by Courtesy of Max.
Perhaps the biggest plus for the new season is the spine of the Deborah Vance character facing up to the challenges of actually creating and hosting a new show in the competitive late-night sphere. She’s landed the white whale… now she has to make it work for her.
As usual, creators Lucia Aniello, Paul W. Downs and Jen Statsky have crafted an excellent throughline for the season, and are clearly comfortable with their two headstrong leads. The brash and veteran Vance facing off with the nervy, entitled Ava Daniels is one that keeps on delivering year after year.
And turning them into more conventional workmates, with concerns including what coffee machine to stock in the offices of the new show and recruiting/managing a group of fresh new writers works wonders on both a tension and comedy level.
(L to R) Megan Stalter and Paul W. Downs in Season 4 of ‘Hacks’. Photograph by Courtesy of Max.
There is still the gently satirical look at life on different ends of the comedy writer spectrum, but the new dynamic also makes the traditional fall-out-make-up rhythm for Deborah and Ava work without feeling like it is treading over too familiar territory.
Though the new characters have yet to make much of an impression in the early episodes initially provided to press (they are, to be honest, smaller supporting roles designed to drive the comedy between the main duo forwards), they’re still fun.
And the team hasn’t forgotten about the carefully constructed world around Deborah and Ava, with the rest of the ensemble still enjoying solid storylines.
While ‘Hacks’ has never been a show to fall back on visual tricks, the directing team, led by Aniello in particular, always find ways to make it interesting, with Deborah’s panic nightmares about the show brought to screens in convincing fashion.
Cast and Performances
(L to R) Hannah Einbinder and Jean Smart in Season 4 of ‘Hacks’. Photograph by Courtesy of Max.
There is a reason that Jean Smart has won so many trophies for playing Deborah Vance –– the role is such a good fit for her. And in Season 4, she continues to spit venom when needed, but still comes across as a rounded human being with her own hopes, ambitions and needs. A moment later in the season where she explodes in frustration about a big change in her staff and her business gives her such good material to chew on; and chew on it she does, that scene is going straight on the actor’s Emmy submission.
As Ava, Hannah Einbinder continues to walk the tricky path of the character potentially coming across as annoying and whiny and seeing her point of view. Like most of the characters, Ava has evolved as she’s spent time in Deborah’s orbit and Season 4 offers some prime moments, especially where she’s trying to justify her own sneaky way of becoming head writer on the new show –– and trying to assert her own power still.
Around the central pair, there is the delightful regular ensemble, especially co-creator Paul W. Downs as Jimmy, the endlessly frazzled and frustrated manager, who must wrangle both Deborah’s titanic ego and Ava’s many neuroses.
(L to R) Meg Stalter and Paul W. Downs in Season 4 of ‘Hacks’. Photograph by Courtesy of Max.
He, as ever is both helped and hindered by Megan Stalter’s Kayla, his former assistant and now his business partner in a new management company who he both cherishes and regrets ever dealing with. Stalter is a comedic sniper, channeling Kayla’s oddball energy and lighting up every scene she’s in.
The show also has the usual series of cameos, though those are something we won’t spoil –– they’re all entertaining, though, especially one returning character from an earlier season in a position of power where they really don’t belong, and who helps Deborah out of a tricky situation.
Final Thoughts
(L to R) Jean Smart and Hannah Einbinder in Season 4 of ‘Hacks’. Photograph by Courtesy of Max.
Some will accuse ‘Hacks’ fourth season of going through some familiar motions, especially in regard to Deborah and Ava, but the storyline of the late-night show and some fresh moments for several characters means it still works.
‘Hacks’ is one of the most reliable comedies on TV, and the new season does nothing to change that.
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What is the plot of ‘Hacks’ season 4?
In season 4, tensions rise as Deborah (Jean Smart) and Ava (Hannah Einbinder) endeavor to get their late night show off the ground and make history doing it.
(L to R) Hannah Einbinder and Jean Smart in Season 4 of ‘Hacks’. Photograph by Courtesy of Max.
‘Hacks,’ which has been a huge, award-winning success for the Max channel, is returning to our screens this month with its fourth season.
The show stars Jean Smart as Deborah Vance, a legendary comedian who has built an empire out of her darkly honest stand-up routines and enjoys a residency at a swanky Las Vegas hotel and casino.
But when her aging material sees her pushed out of her prime slot, Deborah begins to face the realities of modern comedy. Her agent suggests pairing her with younger, slightly neurotic comedy writer Ava Daniels (Hannah Einbinder), who initially has trouble finding common ground with the pushy, diva-tastic Vance.
Yet they make the odd partnership work, Ava helping to rejuvenate Vance’s following and Vance in turn giving Ava a real grounding in how the business works.
(L to R) Hannah Einbinder and Jean Smart in Season 4 of ‘Hacks’. Photograph by Courtesy of Max.
In the latest season, tensions rise as Deborah and Ava endeavor to get their late night show off the ground and make history doing it.
The cast also includes Paul W. Downs as Jimmy, Deborah and Ava’s ambitious but nervous manager and Megan Stalter as Kayla, his chaotic assistant-turned-partner at the management firm they have launched together.
Downs also co-created the show with Lucia Aniello and Jen Statsky and together they run the series, with Downs and Aniello also directing some episodes.
Max held a virtual press conference with Smart, Einbinder, Stalter, Downs, Aniello and Statsky. Here are 10 things we learned at that press conference, edited for clarity and length. ‘Hacks’ Season 4 will debut with its first two episodes on Max on April 10th.
1) The fourth season finds Deborah feeling the pressure of launching a late night show
(L to R) Jean Smart and Helen Hunt in Season 4 of ‘Hacks’. Photograph by Courtesy of Max.
Smart’s character starts having unusual crises of confidence in her new role as talk show host.
Jean Smart: She definitely has something. The pressure gets to her. I give credit to the to the writing for that. It continually amazes me that they are able to find more and more for us and, and also keep this dynamic going, because I think that’s a lot of the fun for the audience is this relationship and the fact that they’ve been able to keep that the way they have, because that was my biggest fear after the first season, was that, well now that they’re kind of friendly and working together, is that going to be as much fun for the audience see them butting heads? But it’s amazing to me that it continues in the same vein and just gets better and better… And meaner and nastier!
Some of Deborah’s fears are manifested as coyotes appearing in her dreams or hanging around her Los Angeles home.
Jean Smart: All of her fears have been turned into this creature, who keeps popping up, and living in California, they’re always this specter out in your yard. So I thought it was really a clever idea to have that be symbolic.
2) Einbinder’s character is also seeming different this season
Hannah Einbinder in Season 4 of ‘Hacks’. Photograph by Courtesy of Max.
Building off from Ava essentially blackmailing Deborah into giving her the head writer job on the new show, the season finds her in a fresh dynamic with her mentor.
Hannah Einbinder: I think Ava’s hand has been forced. A lot of people ask me, “has Ava turned bad?” No, I think she has to speak Deborah’s language. She still has her core, she retains that spirit but has to play ball. It’s been really cool to get to play the adversarial thing. Obviously when we have to fight, the director calls cut and we’re just [mimes hugging] “I’m sorry!” But it’s fun to traverse this winding road with the two of them.
3) The house used for Deborah’s Los Angeles residence was lost to the fires
Jean Smart in Season 4 of ‘Hacks’. Photograph by Courtesy of Max.
The production had thankfully finished shooting in the mansion before the wildfires destroyed it.
Jean Smart: The beautiful mansion that was built in 1930, I think. It’s been sitting there and untouched by fire for 100 years almost. And it burned. It was really sad. We had just finished shooting there, I think the week before. To envision those beautiful rooms and that, that beautiful fountain and the yard… The couple that lived there and their dog, they’re safe, thank God. But yeah, that was, that was shocking.
4) Downs, Aniello and Statsky didn’t have to look too far for subject matter this year
(L to R) Hannah Einbinder and Paul W. Downs in Season 4 of ‘Hacks’. Photograph by Courtesy of Max.
Downs explained the creative trio’s writing methods.
Paul W. Downs: We have a Magic Eight Ball, and when we have an idea, we ask, “is it good?” [Laughs] No, we have been building this for a long time. We always knew we wanted Deborah to get her white whale, this late-night show. But like with stand-up, we’ve always said that this is a show about the wig-off moments. The behind-the-curtain moments. So there is a lot of behind-the-scenes drama and comedy that happens at a late-night show. It was really fun to explore that, and also to write what you know as writers writing a comedy show. It was easy!
Aniello appreciated the new setting as something to spur creativity.
Lucia Aniello: It was a fun, fresh challenge to be able to write the two of them in an office setting, so whether they’re arguing about coffee makers or about HR or hiring, it just feels fun to put them in that scenario because that’s a scenario the rest of the world knows more than potentially some comedians.
5) While the show is usually shot in Los Angeles, it headed to Vegas for a longer stint this season
Jean Smart in Season 4 of ‘Hacks’. Photograph by Courtesy of Max.
The vast majority of ‘Hacks’ is shot in L.A., but with Deborah’s home base in Vegas, it would often spend a day or two there per season. In the new season, an entire episode was filmed in the city across days.
Jen Statsky: We feel really lucky to have shot in L.A. for four seasons now. It’s a testament to our amazing production team that so many people are, “oh, you moved to Vegas for five months, right?” And we’re, “no, every season we’ve only done one or two days there.” So this season, that third episode was the most time we ever spent in Vegas because, we just felt like it was a really fun setting for a writers’ retreat.
6) But don’t worry if you’re a fan of the Vegas characters in Deborah’s sphere…
(L to R) Hannah Einbinder and Jean Smart in Season 4 of ‘Hacks’. Photograph by Courtesy of Max.
Even given the L.A. setting and changed circumstances for some of the characters, fan favorites will still show up.
Downs: This is not a spoiler. We absolutely see DJ [Played by Kaitlin Olsen], Deborah’s daughter, this season. We’ll see Kiki played by Poppy Liu. It’s really important to us to keep our ensemble and the ecosystem that is around Deborah Vance, always there. Obviously, to greater or lesser degree, depending on the story. We really come at it story first and character first. It’s actually very true to the life of someone like Deborah who is this star, that she moves around and her world moves with her.
7) Megan Stalter is loving Jimmy and Kayla’s own new dynamic
(L to R) Megan Stalter and Paul W. Downs in Season 4 of ‘Hacks’. Photograph by Courtesy of Max.
With Downs’ Jimmy having proposed the new company to Kayla at the end of season three in a scene that spoofed romantic comedies, the latest episodes find them figuring out the new professional partnership.
Megan Stalter: I really tear up when I think about last season. Jimmy chooses Kayla. She gets her guy. He’s finally, “I can’t do this without you.” It’s romantic. I hope in the next season she gets pregnant. I don’t think that –– I don’t want her to hook up with Jimmy –– I want her to get pregnant, and then Jimmy has to take the role of father, I think I want him to step up as the father. But all that to say is, I think Kayla is living her dream in this season, being able to be in some sort of power and having her guy by her side. She’s on top of the world. I don’t think it’s romantic between them. Again, if he was in love with someone, she would kill them. I think that he doesn’t want them to be together. But she does want to have a family with him.
8) Jean Smart prefers support to tough love, unlike Deborah’s style
(L to R) Jean Smart and Hannah Einbinder in Season 4 of ‘Hacks’. Photograph by Courtesy of Max.
Smart related a personal experience to how she prefers directors and others interact with actors, in opposition to Deborah’s more abrasive tactics with Ava.
Smart: I have a 16 year old and he’s in the drama department at his school, and he just finished this weekend playing a part in the school musical. Of course he stole the show. I don’t know where he got that, I can’t imagine! But his teacher can be verbally abusive, and it’s very upsetting as a parent, and I don’t agree with it either. As an actor, I’ve never had that in my experience. I don’t see how you can possibly get good results out of somebody or have someone be able to work in that environment. I guess it’s sort of the cliche of the crazy directors screaming and yelling or the drama teachers saying you need to suffer for your art. It’s, “why? I don’t!” I never got that. Or it’s, “tell us your most private moment. It’ll make you a better actor.” “Really? No, I don’t think so. Just tell me what to say, thank you. It’ll be fine. Just calm down.” I like warm and cozy.
Einbinder has a slightly different take.
Einbinder: I will say like I have a background in athletics, we’ve all had coaches. I think I do like having like that coach dynamic a little at times. But I think that can also exist with support.
9) Jean Smart balks at being asked about women getting along on set
(L to R) Jean Smart and Hannah Einbinder in Season 4 of ‘Hacks’. Photograph by Courtesy of Max.
Smart rejects the idea that women naturally feud, and is clearly tired of the question being asked a lot.
Smart: I’ve always found it a little bit insulting that people have this idea that women can’t get along, and that men do. I’ve found that strange. I remember a million years ago when I was doing ‘Designing Women‘; people used to ask us that constantly: “Wow. What’s it like on the set with four women? Oh, boy, that must be tough!” I said, “Do you guys ask the ‘Barney Miller’ cast that question?” I find that really bizarre.
10) Smart knows what keeps her tethered even as she wins awards and acclaim.
Jean Smart accepts the Best Actress in a Comedy Series award for ‘Hacks’ onstage during the 27th Annual Critics Choice Awards at Fairmont Century Plaza on March 13, 2022 in Los Angeles, California. Photo by Amy Sussman/Getty Images for Critics Choice Association.
Smart is under no illusions as to how people see her, but she’s just trying to live and work.
Smart: Who said I was grounded? It’s a dreadful thing to say! [Laughs] I used to say, especially when my kids were younger, “I think of myself as a housewife with a really weird job.” But I know certainly that’s naive to say that in a way, I know that the outside world, as we put it, the civilian world, they look at our job as being very exciting and sometimes, God knows it is. But I think we have kids and a house and that keeps you grounded.
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What is the plot of ‘Hacks’ season 4?
In season 4, tensions rise as Deborah (Jean Smart) and Ava (Hannah Einbinder) endeavor to get their late night show off the ground and make history doing it.
Emeraude Toubia, Desmond Chaim, and Rome Flynn talk about the relationship between their three characters.
Moviefone: Emeraude, I loved this series. It’s just so… It’s like a big hug to watch it. So Lily is… She has family love, she has sibling love, and she’s searching for romantic love. So, talk to me about her sibling love and her search for romantic love.
Emeraude Toubia: Yes. I love Lily so much, because I feel she reminds me of myself. She reminds me of all my girlfriends, and we’re all desperately, sometimes, looking for love. We want to find the perfect person. So she has ups and downs. She has her perfect on paper boyfriend, but unfortunately he’s not fulfilling her in other ways. So I think it’s really brave of her to break up with him and value herself and realize she needs more. Not that he’s not good enough, but for her, it’s just it’s time to move on. So I think that’s brave. And I just think it’s she’s spunky, she’s human more than anything. And I think it’s really nice for just everyone to see all her struggles and what she goes through and how it’s okay to sometimes just be by yourself and learn a little bit more about you before taking that next step with somebody else.
MF: Well, Desmond, she kind of leans on Nick’s shoulder.
Toubia: That’s all she does. I promise!
MF: Nicks naked shoulder, I might add.
Desmond Chaim: I wish. Yeah. Look, I don’t know if he is what she needs in the long term emotionality of the thing. But there is definitely that moment of it’s Christmas, there is this thing of love in the air and when you’re single on Christmas, which I think can be a very universal experience. There can be this explosion of passion that just drives a very, very intense encounter. And can lead both parties to consider a bunch of things that they maybe haven’t considered before.
MF: And Rome, Santiago’s got some issues.
Rome Flynn: So, what issues do you think?
MF: He is the most stand-up guy. I feel like he has so much integrity, but he’s got some love issues.
Flynn: Yeah. I don’t know if I would classify his issues, but I just think his perspective is one more practical. And that’s what I think is more unique. The dynamic between Lily and Santiago is that, they’re on completely different ends of how they see relationships and see love. And somehow they meet in the middle. And I think that’s kind of how it works in life sometimes, and you end up being closer to those people that don’t necessarily believe in everything that you believe. But, you want to see them win after that. You want to see how that develops. And so, yeah, maybe a little bit issue with love, but in a way I think that’s the relationship that people go through. And so it’s been great to be able to play that.
MF: You said practical. Love is not practical. That’s the whole thing.
Flynn: And you can’t say that it’s right or wrong. And that’s the unique thing about it.
Chaim: Love’s infinite.
Flynn: Exactly, loves infinite, right? But it’s also there is, I feel like, some sort of science behind it. What he’s saying is kind of true about the relationship patterns and how people get in relationships, and then they’re doing the same exact things, it’s kind of right, but hey…
Actors Vincent Rodriguez III and Mark Indelicato talk about what the show means to them.
(L-R): Desmond Chiam (Nick Zhao), Vincent Rodriguez (Henry), Mark Indelicato (Jorge Diaz Jr.), Emeraude Toubia (Lily Diaz)
Moviefone: So Vinnie, we’ll start with you. I really loved this series. I loved the love in all different forms, the inclusivity of it. What does this series mean to you?
Vincent Rodriguez III: Gosh. I mean, to me, the series means positive, compassionate, authentic humanity for all.
MF: Those were great adjectives.
Rodriguez: Our show is… I mean, I feel like a broken American saying this, and I feel like, oh, other shows might chime in like, “Hey, what about us?” But I really feel like this show is going to have a huge impact on the people who watch it. And it had definitely had an impact on us as the actors. We just had a press conference, and hearing the stories from my fellow cast mates who are incredible and have amazing careers and have played amazing roles. And now the fact that we all got to be assembled to portray these characters to tell this story led by Gloria Calderón Kellett, who wrote it with the intention of showing the world that we’re all different, we’re all beautiful, we all need family, we deserve joy, and we deserve a community, and we’re all capable and deserving of love.
No matter how old you are, no matter what ethnic background you have or what spectrum of the LGBTQ Queer Transgender community that you’re a part of, you belong, and you are deserving, and I think it’s something we need. We need to see these characters celebrated in the way that they are celebrated in With Love. Which is why December 17th is going to be a very exciting day when 250 countries get to actually experience what we felt for two months through five episodes. So it’s pretty…it’s a lot, and it feels our hearts and hopefully the audience will feel that too.
MF: And Mark, how about for you?
Mark Indelicato: Well, I was very, very excited to explore a very multidimensional character. I think that Jorge Jr is dealing with familial relationships, Platonic relationships and romantic relationships all at the same time simultaneously. And I think that as an actor, that’s extremely rewarding and extremely interesting to be able to have on the page and also get the liberty and the agency and autonomy to create a very well-rounded and fully realized character. And that was really the impetus for me to come onto this project. And also, I’ve never done a romantic comedy before, and I felt like this was just a joy to do. It made me feel very happy to make, which I hope shines through for the audience and that they’re very happy to watch it.
MF: Oh, it did shine through for me, and I was so happy watching it. Can you describe for me, Mark, your relationship with Lily and also your relationship with Henry?
Indelicato: Sure. Well, my relationship with Lily is extremely interesting because I feel like there’s a lot of times a sibling rivalry, right? And I think that in this show, in With Love, Jorge and Lily are “ride or dies.” They wear each other’s names on their necks, literally. And that was something that I was very, very adamant about is that, rather than having our own name plate necklaces, we would wear each other’s. Because when I read the pilot for the first time, I felt such a strong connection to this relationship, this familial relationship, between brother and sister that is completely rife with unabashed love. And I think that in a show called With Love one would perhaps assume that this is all about romantic love, but it’s not.
And I think that Jorge and Lily’s relationship is very indicative of the kind of multiplicity of love. But then you have Jorge and Henry who are very much in love with each other in a romantic capacity, but that is still very rife with conflict, whether that’s…perhaps not conflict between the two of them in a very traditional way of fighting and this and that, slamming of doors and… But I think that for Jorge, the conflict stems from his own insecurities about falling in love and staying in love. And what does that mean to be in love and be a good partner? And so I was very, very happy and very grateful and very interested in exploring the different ways in which we all love.
Constance Marie and Benito Martinez talk about their characters’ relationship.
(L-R): Constance Marie (Beatriz Diaz), Benito Martinez (Jorge Diaz Sr.)
Moviefone: Constance, what does this series mean to you?
Constance Marie: Oh, it means Latinos have finally made it to the upper middle class. I’ve been waiting for…30 something years for that to happen. And to have multifaceted, diverse…rom-com love is groundbreaking. And I think in society right now with all that we’ve dealt with COVID and divisiveness in America, we really need a show like this. And especially around the holidays, when we all need love. And this show is great for that.
MF: And like I said, this show deals with all kinds of love, like romantic love, family love, self-love. It’s not just a rom-com.
Marie: Yes.
MF: So, Benito, where is the love relationship between Beatriz and Jorge Sr. at?
Benito Martinez: Yeah. Well, it travels…it moves around, that’s our journey. So it starts in one place. I think I’m in one place. I realize I’m not in one place. And then I have to work hard to get back to some place. But ultimately, it’s a long term related that is built in trust and love that has some bumps in the road. And it’s that a…that investment that we’ve made over time that helps us get past the rough parts.
But it’s…you said it, “It’s a big warm hug.” And for me, it’s fun to see it as a story of a family and all the celebrations that happen. All the weirdness that happens at holiday time. The expectations of what it’s like at Valentine’s and 4th of July.
There are weird expectations that we have of the holiday within themselves, and then add to that family and church and relationships. It’s a mess.
Marie: Yeah.
Martinez: It’s expensive, it’s a mess, it’s time-consuming. It’s all of that.
Marie: Yes.
Martinez: And so for me, what’s fun about the show is we just do it, and we have fun with it, and we grow from it. And I like that.
MF: I think there’s something in this for everybody.
Marie: Yes.
MF: Something that everybody can see in it and grow from it. Constance, I love the family aspect of this and the huge Diaz family and all their quirks. Can you kind of give me an overview of the Diaz family?
Marie: I think at the core of the Diaz family is humor and love and acceptance. And that is something that all of us crave from our families. And we have a lot of diverse love relationships in our family. And it breaks down a lot of stereotypes, like Benito’s character, who’s the Stoic Latino man. You would think that he’s very closed-minded, and he is not at all. And the generational acceptance of younger generations and their diverse sexual paths. It’s…at the core of all of that is that your family is here for you. And I also learned a lot of the Latino celebrations because every episode is a different holiday and some of them I knew about and some of them I didn’t. And it is just…this show is like a wonderful…and our family is like a one wonderful invitation to be a part of the love.
MF: And Benito, there’s some strife in the marriage of Beatriz and Jorge Sr. How does Jorge handle this?
Martinez: He goes on the drinking binge.
Marie: No, he wasn’t.
Martinez: It’s off camera, but he’s a mess.
MF: That’s the backstory.
Martinez: She finds him in the car, out cold in the backyard. No, it is actually the discovery of that things aren’t perfect that sends Jorge into that moment of, what happened? And I think anytime you’re in a relationship where you don’t realize your partner is…isn’t happy, and you think you are. You have to realign things and that’s basically it. I mean, in a nutshell it is a realignment, but it’s the learning to realign that wakes up a relationship it’s a…but yeah, it’s the challenge of the journey.
Isis King and Todd Grinnell talk about how the show’s inclusivity is so special for them.
(L-R): Isis King (Sol Perez), Todd Grinnell (Dr. Miles Murphy)
Moviefone: Isis, this series is so beautiful. I really loved it. I loved all different forms of love. Also, the inclusivity of it. What does this series mean to you?
Isis King: Well, I’ve never seen a storyline of like this for someone who looks like me. So to have a career, to have the family support, to have the friend support and then to possibly find love. I think those are things that we’ve always just said we wanted to see. And, I think that every human being should be able to see that type of representation. So, to be that representation is kind of mind-boggling because I didn’t know, it hasn’t been done yet, for a holiday theme rom-com, tv series, or movie. So, I’m just so grateful to be a part of it. And I watched it back the other day and I remember laughing, saying aw, to crying, and I’m just so grateful. There’s no trauma related, they are just people living their lives, trying to find love.
MF: Yeah, Todd, this is what I love about it. I was so happy watching it. What does this series mean to you?
Todd Grinnell: It means everything to me. It’s just so, it fills me with a lot of pride to be able to be part of a storyline like this in a show like this, where we’re just celebrating love and destigmatizing relationship constrictions and stereotypes, and just telling a story about two human beings who have fallen in love and are finding happiness with each other. And, to get to do that with Isis is such an honor. It’s… We’ve had so much fun working together and I just, I love acting with you, Isis!
King: I love acting with you too, Todd!
Grinnell: I miss it.
King: I miss it too. Hopefully we get to do more.
Grinnell: We’ve got to do more.
MF: I love it. More love going on right here in this interview, Isis, who is Sol and what is that relationship with her and Dr. Murphy?
King: So Sol, is a non-binary trans femme, and they are an oncologist, who works at the hospital. Who’s super focused, super kind of conservative and Miles Murphy is a plastic surgeon and always finds himself over on Sol’s side of the hospital. And so, just kind of need a reminder to give people a chance. I think Sol is just so focused on career, family, friends, that’s enough. And I can really relate to that because I’m kind of the same. And, sometimes I have friends like you need to go on a date, you need to give somebody a chance. So I really resonate with this character, and it’s refreshing to see a trans or non-binary character who isn’t just overly sexualized, and that’s all. It’s like, nope, they have a career, they have all this support system, and just a normal person. We are super diverse, complex people, and it’s nice to just see a character that reflects that.
MF: Absolutely. I think sometimes the feeling is people like that are a mess and Sol is so, not a mess, at all. And Todd, what does Dr. Miles Murphy mean to you? And what does that relationship with him and Sol?
Grinnell: Well, Miles to me just represents a big, open heart. He’s a guy that just wants, he just wants love, just like every character in this show. And it’s been, gosh, it’s just so fun to get to do this and share this whole thing with the world. It’s just… the show is really special. And, I think everybody’s going to… It’s a… To me shooting it, felt like… and being with this cast and being with Gloria and being with our crew and our writer’s room, I mean, it’s, it feels like a big warm hug. And I think that’s what it’s going to feel like for the rest of the world too.
Series creator Gloria Calderón Kellett shares her inspiration for the project.
(L-R): Constance Marie (Beatriz Diaz), Gloria Calderón Kellett (Showrunner, Executive Producer, Gladys Delgado)
Moviefone: I just feel so happy after watching this series.
Gloria Calderón Kellett: Good. That’s the goal.
MF: It’s like a big hug. That’s what we’ve been talking about in the interviews. It is so heartwarming, all the different forms of love and the inclusivity. Where did this idea come from?
Kellett: The pandemic, two years at home, not seeing people. My Instagram feed was full of black and brown and queer and Asian bodies in trauma. And I was like, I need to make something for this community. It’s been so heavy.
And so I think that the antidote to hate is love. And so to be able to put out stories of multi-generational, multi-faceted people that happen to look like us and have them experience joy and love and celebration and family was really what I needed as a creator, what I wanted to see on TV, and what was severely lacking.
So it’s just a cocktail for me because I get something out of making it that heals my heart, and then hopefully the people receiving it are getting that hug you’re talking about. That was intention. I always think about the person on the other side of the black box, and that is what I want them to receive right now.
MF: You absolutely succeeded.
Kellett: Good.
MF: 100%. And you also act in the series?
Kellett: I do.
MF: Yeah. That must be fun.
Kellett: It was so fun. I didn’t intend to. I just kept on pitching things for Gladys, and my number two on the show was like, “Well, you’re obviously playing Gladys. That has to happen.” I was like, “Oh, okay.” So it was so fun. So fun to step in with titans. Constance and Benito, they are titans. So it was really glorious for me.
MF: Now, where did the idea of centering the episodes around holidays come from? Because the holidays are such a heightened time anyway. Emotions are higher during the holidays.
Kellett: Emotions are high. Well, again, that was just a lack. We have so many New Year’s traditions, Latinos have. I’ve never seen them on TV. We walk around with the suitcase. We eat the grapes. All that stuff is stuff that we do. And I was like, “I would love to have it at the periphery. I want it to be in the background because that’s what we really do.” And people will be like, “Wait, what are all these fun traditions?” But it’s not a very special episode. It just happens to be going on the way it would in a family while all the family drama is playing out.
And so I just wanted to see us in the holidays. It just feels like there is an erasure of our existence, generally speaking, that I get to make up for on the show, and I get to wrap it in a beautiful … All of our directors were women, women of color. Our DP, Sandra Valde-Hansen is Filipina. We had all these women making a beautiful, warm show. And so all of that together was just glorious for me.
MF: Your filmmakers just sound fabulous, as well as your cast. Did you have a hand in casting this?
Kellett: Oh, yeah. Oh, no, I cast the whole thing. Yes. Yeah. It’s very important, this cast. Amazon was so supportive. Leslie Litt was our casting director. I’ve been working with her for many years, so she knew exactly what I wanted. Grounded people, grounded actors. It just so happened they ended up being gorgeous, but really they’re there for their immense talent, their immense heart, the layers with which they give these characters that could be stereotyped in other hands. And we were all very aware that we got to make something special. And to be able to put in a little bit of nutrition into a rom-com, which is seemingly an innocuous entertainment, we got to break ground with so many of these characters. And it’s really, really exciting for us.
